No Mercy in Florida

Weekly Standard via email ^ | 10/20/2003 | Wesley J Smith

[tutstar]

so is starving Terri to death...

[tutstar]

As I said on another thread , if Terri was a Manatee the gov't and other citizens would be pulling out the stops to keep her alive. Absolutely pitiful!

[speekinout]

I'm glad to hear that it has worked out so well for your father. But you never answered my question about whether he has thanked you for overriding his living will. Has he?

[tutstar]

Terri had no such thing in writing, anytime you are admitted to the hospital here they ask if you want to have one. I don't see how this judge can rule the way he did on only the say-so of the husband and his own relatives. What an imbecile!

[speekinout]

I was genuinely asking a question if he was glad you didn't follow through with his living will.

I was asking the same question. I was curious about it. In my currently healthy state, I think I'd never want to be rescuscitated to live like that. But that's not the same as an opinion from someone who may or may not be glad that their instructions weren't followed.

[spectre]

Then I sincerely apologize if I took it out of content.

You think I would EVER ask Dad to just nod "YES or NO", if he is happy we "saved him"? He can still feel emotions. Please...I couldn't conceive of the notion.

In his own way, he is finally content. It's hard to understand...I mean that.

sw

[spectre]

No.

Happy now?

sw

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

That's what I meant also. I've been through several experiences which have significantly changed my attitudes and beliefs about life. That's just the way life is.

[litany_of_lies]

Thanks for the link. Wow.

[spectre]

You think you're unusual? You think my Father ever could conceive of living this way? He is a retired Army Officer, who served in WWII..Korea...and finally Viet Nam.

He was a blend of Sean Connery and Mel Gibson. Tough, disciplined. He jogged 4 miles every morning up and untill the day of his stroke. Sometimes, the thought of him living like this drives me crazy.

BUT, when he isn't feeling well, has the flu, he WANTS to get better. He wants to continue living. We know this.

I'm sorry his life got interrupted, and he can't do the things he used to anylonger. But if we live long enough, life deals us some bad hands..I'm still very proud of Dad.

This is about the girl...not my father. They are killing her..

I'm off this thread...

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I never said I was unusual, quite the opposite. I'm not sure what I did to earn this target on my back, but now I'm really sorry I asked an innocent question of you.

A close friend was recently diagnosed with a recurrence of her cancer. She and I have talked several times about the decisions she initially made and whether they were the correct ones at the time. Some people talk about these things, some people don't. I'm sorry this topic upsets you but don't take it out on me.

[Don W]

I'm unable to make the connection between the "wives of whoredom" and this thread.

[First Amendment]

I've been in some debates recently (on FR of course!) about whether an atheist can be an ethical good moral person. This situation with Terri is an example of why that is not possible. Of course you and I, and anyone else who bases their standard of morality on God and His moral absolutes, understands that. But there are many atheists or agnostics in the world, and probably even more people who imagine they believe in God, but the "god" they believe in is more or less an idol of their own mental creation.

It is amazing to me that Singer can be hired as a professor of ETHICS. The man is a fiend, and I say that in all seriousness. He may look human, but inside he is an enemy of God. An atheist's center of judgement - their judgement seat, so to speak - is their own mind. (Which is, of course, subject to change according to what books they read, what sins they are attracted to, and their digestion that day.) So there's many atheists, each with a different center, sooner or later there is conflict. Because each person's point of reference is his/her own comfort, security, enjoyment, desires,, and excuses, justifications, etc. Which may very well conflict with someone else's, and inevitably does.

The only way to to have a just, fair and merciful society is one which is based on the eternal and absolute laws of God. And this can be done using all the world's major religions as a guide, because they all have more or less the same prohibitions and responsibilites (dos and don'ts).

I am a follower of the Vedic religion, usually called Hinduism, although this isn't really even a Sanskrit word, and was invented by the Moslems when they invaded and raped, looted and murdered in India. The same absolute respect for all life is there in the Vedas. This respect is based on (as in Christianity) the fact that beings are children of God, regardless of human relative values, and therefore everyone is dear to Him, and should therefore be dear to us.

[First Amendment]

Thank you for sharing your beautiful story about your Father with us. It is bringing tears to my eyes as I write. I have recently volunteered for the local hospice and am reading many books about death and dying. It is sinful and shameful that anyone judges "quality of life" by external activity. As long as there is life, there is a soul in the body who can love and feel love.

[Don W]

I also possess, in addition to the Catholic Bible, a King James version, the "Apocropha" an "annotated" NEV, the Book of Mormon, an Englich translation of the koran, and several volumes of the "Srimad Bhagavita" (SP).

There are many parts of the Word. Some things purporting to be the Word are not. Only God's guidance can truly be trusted.

[First Amendment]

You might want to read my post 74 to spectre and my one to marmema about hospice. There are many very good books about the dying and end of life process. If you're interested I can reccommend some titles. I am reading 5 right now. Really, every thoughtful person can benefit by thinking of death, because we are all going to experience at least our own and very likely those of friends and relatives. There are many experiences that can and should happen to people before they leave the world, and these can be experienced even to a person who appears to not be very functional. Even most people in a coma can hear - prayers, readings, music.

What do we take with us when we leave this world? No money, no titles, no bank balance, not even our skills, talents or accomplishments. The only thing of value we take is whatever love for God and others we have allowed to grow in our hearts. Or, the rancour, envy and hate. That's all. Our hearts are like a garden, and only we can decide whether we want to grow the flowers of love and compassion, or the weeds of pride and selfishness. And this work can be done while lying in bed, seemingly helpless.

[First Amendment]

I hope you're not thinking that I am trying to correct you - I thought your question to spectre was respectful and it just seemed he/she took it amiss. It just seems as though you are a very thoughtful person, and you mentioned your friend with cancer, so I thought you may be interested in continuing the discussion.
Regrads,
pram

[RichardMoore]

We have to develope some new understandings of things. Just as you shouldn't give your credit card number to someone who calls you no matter who they claim to be, you should also not volunteer your organs to strangers, eventhough it seems like a Christian thing to do. We are not living in a friendly world.

As for education, I think that we have a long way to go in that respect. There is much "education" that goes on as a part of our consumer culture. John Dewey the famous librarian, promoted PRAGMATISM in our schools and it is the bane of the pro-life movement.

[spectre]

Pram, I only came back on to thank you and the others for your kind words.

I don't know where you find the strength and compassion to do the hospice thing, but I thank God for people like you.

Regards, sw

[First Amendment]

Thank you for *your* kind words! I took care of my mother for 5 months as she was bedridden before dying from lung cancer. It was a very painful, educational, and enlightening experience. Our culture is not death-friendly - meaning we sweep it under the rug, don't talk about it, avoid it, and then when we're faced with it - don't know what to do. Most doctors aren't much help; they aren't trained in the art of dying with real dignity.

All I can say is every soul is precious.