Federal judge says Federal Judge says Terri Schiavo must die

Ther Americans for Disabilities Act is toothless -- it was grand posturing by the first Bush administration to show that it was "caring" toward the disabled. The law has no real impact except on forcing employers with more than 50 workers to provide wheelchair ramps and bars in restrooms by which the handicapped can lift themselves.

It should have addressed issues such as this.

On the other hand, there is a very real right-to-life case here even if that life is less functional than others.

The fact is that this scumbag would let his wife die, almost murder her no matter matter what the case, makes it more than perverted and strange. Even if he didn't want to be married anymore, divorce her and let the parents take care of their daughter. This is truly unfathomable to me that judges would allow her death!

This is getting more the cultural here, this is the middle of war...there is no doubt that evil has gripped the hearts and minds of the legal system...

Swords Up!

CNN ran a streamer on Terri's impendin death during the "Capital Gang" Saturday evening. It called here a "severely brain-damaged woman" and noted the feeding tube would be removed "next week."

There is considerable question as to wheather she is alive.

The Schindler's attorneys are appealing. They filed an appeal last week. But they feel the appeal will once again be rejected by Judge George Greer.

"Federal judge says Federal Judge says Terri Schiavo must die"

Isn't that hearsay?

Since Terri does interact with her surroundings, even saying words to those giving her care, many of us believe Terri retains a right to her individual LIFE. Many of us are outraged that courts and judges have decided to execute Terri because she doesn't have the quality of life that you or I possess, execute Terri because she is severely disabled. Our outrage is heightened by the fact that her guardian husband has abused her for lo these thirteen years, making every effort to withhold stimulation and REHABILITATION from her, in effect, torturing her by working to make a vegetable out of her, yet despite his abuse and neglect she still fights for her life even when assaulted by massive infection.

I sense that you would do well to avoid discussions of disabled folks and the vagaries of their abuse and neglect, since you seem obsessed with quality of life as the measure of value of individual LIFE. No use confronting that which you are working so hard to counter, namely, the fragility of an individual LIFE. One of the greatest stuntmen in Hollywood died tragically from a fall on a motorcross bike while riding with his family in a wooded area, that after falling out of buildings (one of the greatest stunts ever done was in Sharkey's Machine and Dar performed it), slamming into solid objects at high-speed, and leaping from all manner of transportation conveyances. I'm certain the adrenaline rush was nearly addictive for Dar, also, but his mortality was not increased or reduced with the stunts that he orchestrated. He was a very talented man; he is missed.

"Does anyone here totally trust that their state government would be any different?" A very perceptive question! How long since Johnson instituted 'the great society'? I'd conjecture that there isn't a state in teh Union which is in any way significantly different in its inhumanity than Flordia. And you've nailed it, the cause is a failed judicial system, the last bastion of democrat pernicious liberalism!

"I know little about this case. But, if all these judges have heard all this, then I trust their ruling. $350,000 is nothing. This sounds like a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory crap to me."

Terri's 1991 Bone Scan
which shows that Terri suffered major trauma.
http://www.friendsofterri.org/bone.html

TO ALL:

"There is certainly more to the story than is what is in these articles. For one thing, they never mention that Terri was bulemic and probably suffered a heart attack. Instead many people on these threads INSINUATE THAT HER HUSBAND STRANGLED HER."

Bear with me, I'm trying to find (and so far have not) where it was stated that a DOCTOR SAID HE HAD ONLY SEEN ONE OTHER NECK LIKE HERS, AND THAT WAS IN THE CASE OF A STRANGULATION VICTIM.

Terri's Situation:
http://www.terrisfight.org/Framesets/SituationFrame.htm

Letter from Terri's Father:
http://www.terrisfight.org/Framesets/DadLetterFrame.htm

Letter from Terri's Brother Bobby:
http://www.terrisfight.org/bobbyletter.htm

Letter from Terri's sister Suzanne:
http://www.terrisfight.org/sisletter.htm

VIDEOS OF TERRI - SHE IS NOT PVS!!! http://host85.ipowerweb.com/~friendso/vid.html
http://www.terrisfight.org/lead.htm

Michael Schiavo and his attorney claim that a starvation death for Terri will be peaceful. Columnist Jane Chastain has different information. Http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34416

"Murder is Legal if we say so". Powerful Commentary from KSFO 560's Barbara Simpson. http://www.terrisfight.org/lead.htm

Lawsuit charges Michael Schiavo with Perjury and Fraud
Intentional conspiracy; Breach of fiduciary duty & Infliction of emotional distress

Why has Terri been isolated from the public?
To further veil Terri from the public, she was clandestinely moved from the Palm Gardens skilled nursing home to a Hospice facility

Medical Fund is being used to facilitate Terri's death

"I believe in the vows I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poor. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that."
--Michael Schiavo (1992 Malpractice Trial Testimony)

Update on Terri's Medical Fund used for Schiavo's
Attorney Fees Read more...

Judge Greer Ignores Schiavo’s Alleged Abuse
"The court concludes that while it might be interesting to pursue the issue of trauma as it may have occurred almost 12 years ago, that has nothing to do with Theresa Marie Schiavo in 2002."--Judge George Greer (November 22, 2002)

Removal of guardian sought in right-to-die case
Family claims husband has conflict of interest due to adultery --Diana Lynne, WND (November 19, 2002)

Petition to Remove Guardian and to
Appoint Successor Guardian "(Michael) Schiavo has demonstrated through repeated and gross failures to comply with the law that he is incapable of discharging the duties of guardian." --Current News Update! (November 17, 2002)

Schindlers: Daughter Deserves Divorce
--by David Sommer, TAMPA TRIBUNE (November 16, 2002) Read More!

Attorney suggests woman in coma-like state may have been abused by husband--AP NEWS (November 16, 2002) Read More!

Parents In Schiavo Case Allege Past Abuse --by David Sommer, TAMPA TRIBUNE (November 13, 2002) Read more!

Attorney claims a beating may have caused Schiavo's coma
--by William R. Levesque, TIMES STAFF WRITER (November 13, 2002) Read more!

***** Doctor who testified that Terri can recover, praised by Board of Medicine "Dr. Hammesfahr is the first, and only doctor in medical history to reverse the effects of stroke." --Florida Board of Medicine

The Hearing to Save Terri Schiavo's Life
In 1990, Terri Schiavo's heart suddenly stopped. Before she could be revived, her brain was damaged and she slipped into a comalike state --by Rus Cooper-Dowda (November 18, 2002)

Imperfections are part of life, ministers note
A family that empathizes with Terri Schiavo, and takes in pets with maladies, wants to tweak how churches treat disabled people Read More...--by Waveney Ann Moore, TIMES STAFF WRITER (January 11, 2003)

"When I Woke Up..."
Then they said I couldn't breath on my own -- and I could.
Then they said I couldn't learn to eat again on my own -- and I did.
Then they said therapy wasn't important -- and it was.
Then they said I would be dead within a year -- in 1985 -- this is 2003...
by Rus Cooper-Dowda Read More...

THESE STORIES AND MUCH MUCH MORE AT http://www.terrisfight.org/Framesets/RecentFrame.htm

"On the other hand, there is a very real right-to-life case here even if that life is less functional than others. The anti-michael folks have poisoned these threads and turned them into what you correctly perceive as a CONSPIRACY."

PLEASE see post #1331 for shocking irregularities brought to light in this case http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/986663/posts?q=1&&page=1333

EUTHANASIA Prayer Trumps Politics and Evil in a Florida Courtroom [AND] Murder In Manassas, VA? The Starving of Hugh Finn http://www.catholicmediacoalition.com/euthanasia.htm

".....June, 1998: Michele's Decision

Michele called for a meeting in June at the nursing home where the Medical Director, Dr. Robin Merlino, announced they were going to "terminate" Hugh's feeding the next day. The announcement, a bombshell, sparked immediate objections from the family. Michele was determined. According to Tom Finn, a few days later she "chewed my head off and wanted to know why I wouldn't do what she wanted." Doctors had told her Hugh was in persistent vegetative state (PVS) and would never recover. He wouldn't want to live like that, Michele insisted. Finn was so angry over the exchange he told Hugh Michele was going to kill him, an act he immediately regretted. "[Hugh's] face turned red. He pinched his lips in. His hands were on his chest grabbing [at his clothing]. He shivered and shivered for 45 minutes. I had begun to believe what the doctors said [about PVS], but then I knew. 'You do understand!'"...."

THE EUGENICS MOVEMENT IN AMERICA
http://www.notdeadyet.org/docs/eughis.html

You might want do yourself a favor and do a quick google search: 'Rockefeller Population Control', 'Rockefeller Euthanasia', 'Rockefeller Nazis', etc. Thank you for taking the time to inform yourself. The life you save may be your own.

FLASH CAMPAIGN - FOR TERRI SCHIAVO - PREPARE FOR MONDAY
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/999662/posts?page=13

You keep throwing those words around, but just because the judge rules against our position does not make them either.

Take, for example, Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Almost never has she ruled in a way I've liked, nor did she take a position as an attorney that I did.

Yet, I don't think that it's appropriate to call her corrupt or incompetent. Just wrong.

I don't think Greer can overrule a federal appellate court can he? They should have authority in this case, and then the Supreme Court if it goes that far.

You sound like you could be a stunt person for a living, or a writer for Adventure. It sounds like you live an exciting, fulfilling life. Others find their lives fulfilling as well, although they may lack the excitement of yours. I present you the story of Hugh Finn and Terry Schiavo. Hugh was full of life, but became disabled. Note his reaction when his father told him that his wife was going to kill him:

"...Michele called for a meeting in June at the nursing home where the Medical Director, Dr. Robin Merlino, announced they were going to "terminate" Hugh's feeding the next day. The announcement, a bombshell, sparked immediate objections from the family. Michele was determined. According to Tom Finn, a few days later she "chewed my head off and wanted to know why I wouldn't do what she wanted." Doctors had told her Hugh was in persistent vegetative state (PVS) and would never recover. He wouldn't want to live like that, Michele insisted. Finn was so angry over the exchange he told Hugh Michele was going to kill him, an act he immediately regretted. "[Hugh's] face turned red. He pinched his lips in. His hands were on his chest grabbing [at his clothing]. He shivered and shivered for 45 minutes. I had begun to believe what the doctors said [about PVS], but then I knew. 'You do understand!'",,," http://www.catholicmediacoalition.com/euthanasia.htm

Do we have the right to be arbiters for whether or not someone's life has value according to our standards, and then decide to starve and dehydrate them to death? This is what happened to Hugh, and is scheduled to happen to Terri. With Hugh, as with Terri, the truth was manipulated to accomplish the agendas of those who wanted these people dead.

Please, maybe you could also find the time to read the letters from Terri's family.
[I started this post yesterday - please see my post above]

You should also know that Michael may have been the cause of Terri's collapse ( she had multiple unexplained injuries and a neck a doctor said he had seen on only one other patient - a strangulation victim). This was never investigated. So is it OK now for a husband (who is living with another woman, and who has one child with her and another on the way) to possibly attempt murder on his wife, and then have the judicial system finish what he started, and reward him with the money awarded to his wife for her rehabilitation? These are just a few of the issues in this case. There are more. You don't sound like the type of person who would condone this.

Oops. That's a typo. The title of the article is "Federal Judge says Terri Schiavo must die." Thank you for pointing that out.

IMO, Terri's organs have been sold to a wealthy person or persons for a vast amount of money, with the payoffs made secretly to various people.

Many of us are outraged that courts and judges have decided to execute Terri because she doesn't have the quality of life that you or I possess, execute Terri because she is severely disabled.

All that I am saying is that based upon what I have read about this case (I have read quite a lot about it in the last two days), I cannot find reason to feel the outrage that you seem to feel. Concern, yes. outrage, no.

Articles posted on sites with names having to do with right to life make Michael out to be the Devil incarnate. On the other hand, articles posted on sites with names having to do with right to die make Terri's parents out to be the Devil incarnate. Then, somewhere in the middle, are all of the reports from Associated Press, USA Today and other news sources, that leave you wondering who is in the right and who is in the wrong. Even the doctors are similarly divided. Michael's doctors, as expected, pronounced her to be in a "persistent vegetative state". As similarly expected, the doctors for Terri's parents said that she could recover. The difference is that the court appointed doctor agreed with Michael's doctors.

Frankly, it seems to be a very partisan argument - sort of like locking Barney Frank and Pat Buchanan in a room together and expecting them to agree on anything. From what I have read, there may indeed be reason to think that Terri has not received the best of care. But, there is also reason to believe that, regardless of the level of care, she will never recover even a portion of her ability to live on her own. Terri's moaning and crying may only be primitive brain stem activity or it may be her reaching out. And, if it is her reaching out, how are we to know if she is reaching out to say "Help me live" or "Let me die"? I don't know the answer. As I stated before, I believe that there is reason to be concerned.

But, because of the obvious bias coming from both camps, in this highly partisan argument, I feel that the only reasonable alternative is to rely upon the judgment of the courts, whom the people have entrusted, to filter out all of the partisan propaganda and get to the real facts. The courts are not perfect. They need to be reformed. But, even in their imperfection, they have served us well for over 200 years. Until we have a better system, I have to believe that after five years of hearing arguments from both sides and multiple appeals, going all the way to the SCOTUS, however the final ruling comes down, it is the best that we can achieve... today.

I remain concerned. But, I will save my outrage for the bigger fight - the fight to reform the system.

A somber ping

"IMO, Terri's organs have been sold to a wealthy person or persons for a vast amount of money, with the payoffs made secretly to various people."

I think a lot of us thought that at first. There is big profit to be made in organ transplants. Euthanasia to save on medical costs and to provide organs for transplant was discussed at length in this debate about euthanasia:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/Lifedebate.html

However, I understand that the organs left after this kind of torture to the body are unusable for transplant. Incidentally, a FReeper posted her personal experience with extreme dehydration, and you might be interested in what she had to say about it:

"To: All

I have been hospitalised for severe dehydration three times in my life.I endured the pain for less than six hours, each time, before medical relief was given.
A simple IV solution completely stopped the extremely painfull body cramping in less than an hour.I was always discharged the next day.
To purposely inflict that kind of agony on a severly brain damaged woman is an unspeakable, inhuman cruelty.
To know that kind of physical torture is ordered by a judge in the State of Florida is, by my own personal physical experience, cruel and inhumane, and is so obviously and fundamentally wrong, on every level that any human being can be expected to comprehend.
Terri Schiavo will suffer physical agony for 8-15 days before she dies.She will not "die with dignity".
She has never been accused, much less convicted, of a crime so heineous that our society would tolerate such torture in her judicially decreed execution.
Where are all those people who would mount massive protests and candlelight vigils over the judically proclaimed death sentence for the likes of Osama Bin Ladin, for crimes against humanity?
If all we can do, as a society, is allow our government to murder this poor woman because she is severely brain damaged, than by God, let her murder be absent torture, and having wittnesses present.Judge Greer should be required to observe and oversee his directed death.
Take her to Starke, and start the execution sequence.
We outlawed electrocution in Florida, because it was "inhumane".
Let none of us be allowed to look away from this death sentence, because I swear, a few extra minutes of torture by a mal-functioning electric chair would be prefferable to a week of forced starvation/dehydration.
May God have mercy on our souls.....1,503 posted on 10/10/2003 7:50 PM PDT by sarasmom (Pray for Terri Schiavo..Sentenced to be executed by starvation to begin on 10/15/03) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/986663/posts?q=1&&page=1501

I agree with and appreciate much of what you are trying to say here, but I lean a little further towards the outrage side of the argument.

Like you, I lead a fairly active lifestyle. I'm not an adrenaline enthusiast as you are, but I love being active and doing things outdoors. One reason that I've posted so rarely in the past six months is that I've been building a more active lifestyle and haven't had time to freep or to work on my website. I think that if I were in this position, I would want to be heavily sedated so that I wouldn't feel the discomfort and then allowed to die. However, it's not my place to make that decision for this woman.

As you said, the experts have conflicting opinions on Terri's condition. I've been to enough scientific conferences that I'm used to that situation. Too many people like to worship science as some all-knowing, always correct god who is ready for us to discover his will. The reality is that technical people disagree more often than not on all but the simplest technical questions.

What I find so objectionable is that the system doesn't grant the benefit of the doubt to this woman who is scheduled to be killed. If she were on trial for murder and the DNA experts had this much difference of opinion on whether the DNA evidence showed her to be the criminal, the jury would likely acquit her. At the very least, the judge would not likely impose the death penalty.

In the long term, what we need is a law that would state that when someone is awarded a large cash settlement for ongoing care in a case like this, the cash should be paid from a trust directly to the caregivers or used to reimburse direct expenses to the family. The family should not have the option of just using the cash. In that case, the husband would have no motive for his wife to die and some of the controversy in this case could be avoided. The law should also invalidate any previous guardianship agreements if the current guardian chooses to terminate the patient's life. The big problem here is that the husband persuaded the parents to sign a form making him the guardian with the final choice in all of Terri's decisions. When he was trying to help her, that was okay, but it needs to be revisited when he changes his mind about treatment.

In the short term, I would like to see the Bush administration take more positive action. The previous idiots made an armed raid in order to force a little boy to live in slavery on Cuba. I think it could be forgiven if the current administration stretched a point to keep an American woman alive.

WFTR
Bill

Terri has an incredibly strong will to live!