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To: RaceBannon
Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano I believe was right in his assesment.

However for the wrong reasons.

1. I think the government and the Media have know about these scandals for years and did little to almost nothing about it.

2. The government made a big issue of it only when it was convenient for the government. for example when the drums of war were beating and the Vatican was not on board.

3. Once the Vatican calmed down with its objections to the war, the saga has also died down, at least in the media circles.

The Vatican supposedly represent God on earth (for Catholics) and show there millions of believers around the world, both moral and spiritual guidence.

However If God was to return to the earth and question his so called representatives on earth about the scandal and they reply "well it was over blown by the media, it was not that many children that were molested".

They would be burning for the rest of eternity, the whole lot of them from the Pope down.

There is simply no excuse, not for this Pope or for any Pope before him or that may come after him. Anyone from Arch Bishop to Cardinal to Priest. If found guilty of such a crime, they should be excomunicated instantly and sent to jail.

Any member of the clergy no matter what rank, that attempted to cover it up, should also be ex-communicated.

Any member fo the government, law enforcement or the media who were Catholics who attemtped to cover it up, should be ex-communicated from the church.

This would send the correct message to the masses.

However, sadly the church has become a big business and we are probably just scrathing the surface of a much bigger problem and not just in the catholic church.

A long way from the orignal concept and a reminder that money and power does corrupt.

30 posted on 10/11/2003 7:49:27 AM PDT by John_11_25
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To: John_11_25
The problem as I see it (and this is just my observation) and what makes me weep, is the problem of sin allowed to continue in an organization that calls itself biblical or of God. It doesn't matter whether it is the RCC, Episcopalians, Methodist, UCC, SBC, Jewish, etc. It is absolutely clear throughout scripture, OT and NT that when someone is willfully sinning, having been shown that they are, they are to be put out of the assembly/church until/if they come to repentance, making no distinction between the flock and the shepherds. Otherwise, the whole flock becomes infected and led away from humbling themselves to God. It wouldn't take a whole lot of time to come up with at least 50 verses in context to show that. What should have happened when this was exposed by the Lord is a coming to repentance of all parties, to come together in Christ and so, sin abounded and continues to in many instances as the higher authorities are still trying to justify/rationalize/minimize, etc what happened. The Godly thing is a confession that leads to Godly repentance. That is what scripture teaches us.

The problem is not who were the victims or what the media said. The problem is not whether it is one priest or 10,00 priests. The basic problem here is that those who say they have God's spiritual authority over others are also sinning against God. It always boils down to sin - following our own way and not submitting to Him. And ones in authority above them did not follow God's will. Sin upon sin. If they know their bible, they know they are held to a higher standard and will be more accountable on that Day. But instead, things are covered up, hushed up, swept under the rug, or sometimes justified. And it isn't just the RCC, it happens in more organized churches/denomination than any of us care to imagine, especially in our own particular congregation. And Truth says that should be no suprise to us because they are man-made, man-run organizations. Sin will happen. We live in a fallen world. It doesn't matter what type of sin. All sin is against God. God's Word is The guideline on what to do when a leader sins against God and/or the flock and their is nothing in it that suggest these people should be coddled, excused, moved, etc.

I find it amazing (well, not really, the Word says it is our nature) that "leaders" will excommunicate people for things like divorce or not following their authority on things, yet turn their back on their own sins because they want the people to follow them, not God. Yet, this is nothing new under the sun - Miriam and Aaron did the same against Moses and others against Aaron. It is the effect of a fallen world. It just goes to show me that all churches/denominations, etc are subject to sin. It is a fallen world and if we are not abiding in Him, then eventually we will go our own sinful way.

I think the bottom line is that when any spiritual "leader" fails to be constantly humbling themselves to the obedience of the LORD, then they are no longer a leader of God's people, for they are now leading them into man's works, thoughts, etc. And leaders, unless they are humble people, having a desire to serve the LORD, become hardened and their pride won't allow them to admit they are wrong, and so come all the coverups, abusive authority and all that kind of nasty stuff. So what has happened with this "scandal" should really not suprise us but rather allow us to wake up and see that it is the Lord and His Truth that we must follow and not man. Thought by thought, deed by deed. It isn't about this "church" and whether you are for it, trying to excuse what they did, or against it, trying to show how bad they are.. shouldn't it be it is all about the Lord Jesus - whether we are submitting Him or going our own way? Shouldn't the issue really be about whether we defend man and their sin, or defend the Truth and stand on it?

In Jesus alone
38 posted on 10/11/2003 8:34:53 AM PDT by lupie
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To: John_11_25
I take any poster who has scripture in his screename with a grain of salt when talking of the Catholic Church. Especially when you slyly inject your own personal theological beliefs into the discussion.
51 posted on 10/11/2003 10:03:17 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (Scratch an evangelical long enough and you'll uncover a heretic or even a blasphemer.)
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