Rush Limbaugh: Open Line Friday [Confirms Some Aspects of Drug Story, Checking In To Rehab]

[I Am Not A Mod]

A thread for those listening to today's show.

[plain talk]

Laz, I understand where you're coming from. The outcome is the same and all. I understand. But it still doesn't invalidate my point. There are differences in these types of people. There's a difference between a low-life bum that's addicted to cocaine or heroin and a successful Rush Limbaugh getting addicted because of chronic back pain. You don't see the difference. Fine. I don't care. Actually this tendancy to blur things together is a larger problem in our culture that represents a dumbing down of society that troubles me a lot more than quibbling with you over this.

[Lazamataz]

Fellow dopers? So someone who gets addicted because he's taking pills for pain is equivalent to someone who smokes dope for fun? I don't think so.

As a recovering drug addict myself, I can tell you with certainty that once addictin sets in, the original motivations are meaningless. The behaviors are the exact same. At my Narcotics Anonymous meetings, we hear the EXACT same stories from the 'good motivated' addicts and the 'bad motivated' addicts.

It is a distinction without a difference.

[weegee]

The "jury" is still out with regards to whether it was Kurt who pulled the trigger. Some say that he would have been completely incapacitated by the amount of heroin he did that night.

[gore3000]

I don't know why some people are charged in the federal system rather than more lenient state systems; but the trends show federal rather than state drug charges are increasing steadily.

The usual reason, money. They let the feds spend the money prosecuting crimes which have been federalized.

[ellery]

Bless you for your strength in working to overcome addiction, and for your testimony -- your words may help others struggling with their own demons. Congratulations on being free of cocaine for nearly a year!

[ellery]

There is a world of difference in these two classes of addicts.

Then do you favor changing the law to codify this difference?

[Destro]

I am sure that is a statistic you can prove--and the alleged crime of Rush's was in Florida-not California.

[plain talk]

No

[ellery]

It does not help Rush or others suffereing from drug addictions to make this distinction. It's this kind of rationalization that likely extended Rush's addiction agony.

[ellery]

I assume you don't want Rush in prison for his illness (nor do I), even if it turns out to be true that he procured these drugs illegally. Do you believe anyone who began their addiction with medical need and ended up buying the drugs on the street belongs in jail?

[weegee]

Should addiction to prescription drugs be illegal for the patient if there he can still find a doctor to write a prescription?

The doctor may be "guilty", but I don't see how the patient could be "prosecuted".

If the "patient"/addict is going through other channels to obtain prescription drugs then there are already laws for unlawful posession of prescription drugs.

There is still a difference in the criminal enterprises that exist to provide illegal prescription drugs and to manufacture/import/and distribute (plus control territory from competition) street drugs. Some prescription drugs are over the counter (or non-prescription medications) in other countries.

How much does the buyer's/user's actions set in motion a chain of events that causes great societal impact?

[weegee]

Sometimes jail provides a good opportunity for someone to force themselves into detox. David Crosby admits this even though he hated the Texas jails.

Jail shouldn't be considered the best method of getting someone to withdraw (and jail is not free of drugs). Considerations should be made as to how dangerous someone is becoming to himself (and his dependents) as well as society at large.

I know a musician who had been addicted to cocaine after a binge with Ike Turner and I knew that he eventually became homeless but I was unaware that he had robbed 9 banks until he told me. He cleaned himself up but he has been slipping into use again and it impacts his performances (and I'm sure it isn't helping his private life).

I also know someone who has been clean for 20 years and doesn't even drink these days even though he sees a lot of live music in bars and clubs (he has had to leave on only a few occasions to remove himself from the temptation of drinking out of boredom in the room and I've certainly seen it where no one is open and everyone seems to be staring into a beer).

Rush seems to be offering another sign of "good faith" to the courts by checking himself into rehab before anything is brought to court. His past efforts at detox would probably also factor into his case.

If it seems that actors, entertainers, and athletes get a free ride when it comes to drugs it is because their work is largely fluff. They don't operate heavy machinery. They don't drive the public around. They don't make legal decisions on policy or deploy troops. When celebrities get into car accidents or violent at parties/nightclubs, then their behavior starts to spill over into society. Even abusing a spouse or children will raise red flags to addiction.

Celebrities can also afford better legal representation (and garner more support from the public) than Joe Schmoe.

[plain talk]

Personally, no. I'm not real big on jail sentences for illegal drug use except in repeat cases to begin with. I'll leave it to others more knowledgeable to me to prescribe actual sentences for these matters. But I don't believe in completely legalizing illegal drug use. I don't see a first time offender going to jail either.

[ellery]

This raises an interesting question. I posit that drug use becomes addiction when the cost of doing it exceeds the benefit. People who are on diabetes medications for life, or even lifetime, maintenance-level pain medications like oxycontin, could be said to be addicted -- but I wouldn't include them in that category. I suspect that Rush realized he was addicted at the point where he saw that the drugs were having a more negative effect on his life (e.g., the need to hide the quantity, or the need to buy illegally, etc.,) than the pain he originally took drugs to fix.

[weegee]

It may not have been a need for increased quantity. Maybe the doctor's prescription levels were being monitored and it could red flag him. He tells Rush that he can't continue prescribing him Oxycontin. Alternatively he may tell Rush that he is concerned about longterm problems with withdrawl from Oxycontin and is only willing to prescribe it to him for a short period (after which Rush goes to alternative avenues after finding it works better than other medications).

[CodeMonkey]

While I feel sorry for him and hope he has a quick recovery, I hope this will be a lesson for him on drug addiction. Drug users who are hopelessly addicted need help, not prison sentences.

[ellery]

Should addiction to prescription drugs be illegal for the patient if there he can still find a doctor to write a prescription? The doctor may be "guilty", but I don't see how the patient could be "prosecuted".

Addiction is not illegal; the act of procuring and using drugs illegally is. Actually, what you're describing is called "doctor shopping," and obtaining drugs that way is illegal and can be prosecuted.

Are you asserting that the major harm drug users cause society is the act of enriching street drug dealers and their black-market enterprises? I.e., if someone is abusing drugs procured from the pharmaceutical industry, it's much less harmful to society as a whole?

[weegee]

Depends on the impact of their addiction and willingness to change.

Conservative Christians hate the sin but love the sinner. Without repentence there can be no redemption. If the sinner continues to go about sinning we can feel sorrow for him and embrace him to help him along, we cannot accept or embrace his horrible deeds.

Some addicts lash out violently at society (even drunks do this, witness bar shootings) while others steal to feed their addictions. Should a convenience store robber get a lighter sentence because he is struggling with an addiction?

[ellery]

There are first time offenders convicted for simple possession only in federal prison -- see posts 1325 and 1326.

But I agree, I don't think most drug use should be legalized. I think it should be decriminalized, with education and treatment being the major anti-drug focus.

[solitas]

Right - it was his decision. No one's trying to ruin his life BUT if someone persists in self-destructive action (i.e. losing one's hearing through drug misuse) then WHY should anyone ELSE have to help PAY for it? I'm the same way about helmet laws: they're safety equipment and if you choose not to utilize one you shouldn't have insurance pay for expenses that could have been avoided by your wearing one. I'm not a rush hater - far from it. Most of what he says on his show is good - I'm just not a sycophant who believes his every word be it right or wrong. MAYBE he was addicted by his doctor - no one knows for-sure yet HOW he got the pills; the housekeeper's evidence is probably still being analyzed. I wasn't aware that any bureaucrats were involved in the investigation.

I don't consider myself vengeful. If what happened was because of his physician's neglect of his condition and an honest dependency/addiction then he deserves help and sympathy. OTOH if he was privately scoring pills on his own and his physician did not know what was going on because limbaugh was keeping it from him then he brought it all on himself and deserves consequences and prosecution.

BTW, where was his WIFE during all this? Did she have any clue as to his 'pain' and his condition, or notice him "in a drug-impared state" on or off the air (he has a studio at home, no?)? Was she helping get the pills (not accusing her, just wondering if she'll show-up in the housekeeper's evidence too)?

No one knows the whole story yet , the evidence is still being accumulated and investigated, he HAS at least partially come-clean about his addiction but still hasn't said a whole lot about where the meds came from (and AFAIK no one has come forward with evidence or testimony supporting him as of yet), and I am offended by your assertion that I feel superior because he has a problem.

Go have your own fall, go worry about your own friends' spirits, and go notch yourself. :)