TAKING OVER THE CRA/NFRA AND THE CHALCEDON FOUNDATION - ARE WE BEING MANIPULATED?

[Tempest]

"After a concerted effort for over a century to get them out of power, overturn all moral codes, and let the reins go, how dare good and moral men come into power and actually want to return to the days of old when sodomites went to jail for life and morality mattered."

Your kidding right?! Dear God, please tell me you're kidding. I remember the days of old as well when the Pharasies wanted to crucify Jesus for trying to bring prosititutes, and criminals away from their lives and closer to God. I guess they had a problem with the Sonof God because he didn't feel like stoning them that day.

You're supposed to be the fisher of men, not their condemner. But no really share with me this sense of higher morality in which you have that you think a conservative goverment should inact. Because the last time I checked conservatism was about getting goverment out of the lives of consenting adults.

[deport]

From Ahmanson?

---

Yes from Howard Ahmanson jr......

My bad in leaving off the name....

[Poohbah]

Consider the possibility that they were principled, and not remotely focused upon "political smarts", rather trusting to the will of God and their perception of his truths.

As they proceeded to lead the state GOP into one disaster after another...

D'ye think that, maybe, just maybe, they might have stopped to ask themselves, "Gosh, are we actually accomplishing anything aside from getting Republicans really mad at us and electing Democrats who enact everything we oppose?"

Or are they so sure of what God commands that they'd tell Him where He screwed up?

[Iconoclast2]

What if the CRA had set California up for a Conservative Revolution, with McClintock as Governor, setting the stage for a massive and long-term turnaround in moving California to a Free Republic, and the elites pushing Arnold just doomed California to another decade of stagnation?

You can't judge the success of political efforts in such short run terms. Lincoln or somebody said the measure of political accomplishment is turning public opinion completely around in twenty years.

[hchutch]

Jim, I'm going to have to look a lot of this over - but Chancellor Palpatine has sourced these links, and so this is not some L.A. Times-esque smear job.

I think that moving the GOP to the right is admirable, but I would like to see what some other people say on this as well after looking into it.

I will state that in the time I have been on this forum, I have never seen Poohbah or PhiKapMom act in a manner to indicate they were anything other than solid conservatives. Ditto for Howlin. All have, IMO, taken a lot of unjustified flak for supporting Schwarzenegger in this go-round.

I have no love lost for the ACLU. They have done a lot of damage. But I have to wonder if we need to tke a closer look and see if some of our erstwhile allies are not making the job of pounding liberalism harder than it should be.

[Poohbah]

What if the CRA had set California up for a Conservative Revolution,

They didn't. The only thing they were setting up California for was permanent stagnation, because nobody in their right mind was going to invest in the state.

with McClintock as Governor,

That was not going to happen under any circumstances; the man makes Bill Simon look like an effective campaigner.

setting the stage for a massive and long-term turnaround in moving California to a Free Republic,

Actually, it would set the stage for every dollar of investment to leave the state for good.

and the elites pushing Arnold just doomed California to another decade of stagnation?

Schwarzenegger was NOT pushed by "the elites." Hell, a good chunk of the people who voted for him had not been registered in 2002.

You can't judge the success of political efforts in such short run terms.

Actually, you can. In this case, the only thing that was accomplished was convincing MOST of the GOP that the CRA was a dangerously inept bunch of goofballs.

If you can't effectively lead your own damn party, and convince people who mostly agree with you that you're right, you have no frickin' prayer of doing so with those who disagree with you.

Lincoln or somebody said the measure of political accomplishment is turning public opinion completely around in twenty years.

Reagan did that. So did the CRA--but not in the way they intended. So they are, by definition, a failure.

[PhiKapMom]

After reading this thread -- all the name calling is beginning to make a little sense but I am not sure I like where it is headed. Been a Republican Conservative my whole life yet I don't understand some of the "principled" conservatism we have seen in the Recall election. In all the years of activism have never ran up against what I saw in this Recall -- name calling of other conservative office holders who have been Republicans their whole life!

Get the feeling that there is more here than I am even now realizing and sure hope it doesn't have to do with 2004! Steve Largent losing here in OK in 2002 because of an Indy who claimed to be conservative may be making a whole lot more sense!

Did not realize Gary Bauer was involved -- that sends up red flags to me!

[Wallace T.]

This "Chalcedon Foundation" bogeyman you allege is scheming to take over the California GOP is nothing more than "tin foil hat" conspiracy theory, the most common variant of which claims that the Council on Foreign Relations, Bildebergers, and the Trilateral Commission are plotting to make America a province of a one world Communist government.

You point out that Howard Ahmanson, Jr., a wealthy man, has contributed to both the Chalcedon Foundation, the California Republican Assembly, and Tom McClintock's unsuccessful gubernatorial campaign. You see this as a danger to the Republic. What about the fact that Warren Buffett, a far wealthier man than Ahmanson, supported Arnold Schwartznegger, the successful GOP candidate? Buffett has contibuted to numerous liberal and leftist causes. Can we assume then that Buffett would influence Governor Schwartznegger to run the executive branch of California's government with policies similar to, or even more leftist than the deposed Governor Davis?

I am familiar with the Chalcedon Foundation and their political philosophy, which they call theonomy and their social philosophy, which they call reconstructionism. To say they represent the mainstream among conservative evangelical Christians is nonsense. Indeed, they can best be described as marginal. There are several points that must be remembered:

* The reconstructionist movement is itself splintered. Gary North, of Y2K infamy, split off from the movement founded by his late father-in-law, Rousas Rushdoony, over 25 years ago, mmoving his faction from California to Texas.
* Reconstructionism is a minority position among conservative Reformed believers, being at best tolerated by the larger evangelical Presbyterian denominations, such as the PCA.
* Two major elements in the Reformed belief system, covenant theology and "five point" Calvinism, are rejected by the vast majority of politically active conservative Christian leaders. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, the LeHays, Chuck Colson, James Dobson, Phyllis Schlafly, Gary Bauer, and Don Wilemon are not Reformed (though I believe Colson, a Baptist, is also a five point Calvinist). The presumptions of reconstructionism and theonomy are rooted in Reformed theology.
* Influential evangelical Christian theologians, including Reformed theologians, have issued numerous books and papers condemning theonomy and reconstructionism.

The bottom line is that Chalcedon is as marginal in American conservative politics and the evangelical churches as "Earth First" terrorists are among environmentalists and Lyndon LaRouche is in trade union ranks.

[LPM1888]

This thread has answered a lot of questions that I had never yet completely formed in my own mind.

It's both fascinating and disturbing.

I agree!

[AAABEST]

Christian Dominionism - an ideology that the United States shall be governed under a Christian moral code with heavy emphasis on Old Testament rules as a matter of civil and criminal law.

Are you kidding me? I would absolutely love this.

[LPM1888]

Read Heinlein's "If This Goes On" to find out :(

That story has haunted me for over forty years and The Chalcedon Foundation brings those fears into focus.

[LPM1888]

Jim

I am not from California, can you tell me if the information about the The Chalcedon Foundation has some validity? Their own published articles seem very contradictory about their intentions.

What is the on-the-scene story?

[Shethink13]

"Howard Ahmanson was a board member of the Chalcedon Institute for 23 years. This organization wants the government to adhere to biblical law, which, includes among other things, the killing of all gays and lesbians."

Want more?

"The group's biggest bankroller (both to campaigns and major conservative organizations) is Howard Ahmanson, who with his wife Roberta contributed nearly $2 million to various causes and candidates in 1992 alone. This is significant in part because Ahmanson is a longtime director of a theocratic think tank, the Chalcedon Foundation. The Chalcedon Foundation and its founder, R.J. Rushdoony, call for the abolition of democracy and the installation of a theocratic republic under "Biblical Law." The Chalcedon Foundation's theocratic agenda includes, among other things, capital punishment for such religious offenses as blasphemy, heresy, and apostasy, as well as abortion, adultery, and homosexuality."

You "inadvertantly" forgot to post the source of these quotes.

[LPM1888]

"When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives" - Robert A Heinlein

Thank you! That is a Heinlein quote that I had forgotten and it is very much on target.

[Jim Robinson]

I have no idea. I have absolutely no knowledge of the Chalcedon Foundation or of any attempted takeovers by it of the CRA/NFRA organizations. And I believe a lot of fine conservatives associated with the CRA/NFRA are possibly being slandered here by these allegations.

[LPM1888]

Posted by Jim Robinson to LPM1888 On News/Activism 10/08/2003 10:37 PM MDT #315 of 315

I have no idea. I have absolutely no knowledge of the Chalcedon Foundation or of any attempted takeovers by it of the CRA/NFRA organizations. And I believe a lot of fine conservatives associated with the CRA/NFRA are possibly being slandered here by these allegations.

Thank you Jim. I sincerely hope that the takeover stories of the CRA/NFRA organizations are inaccurate. Certainly I don't want to slander anyone but at the same time I am extremely concerned if the accusations are true. Even if they are true I am sure that 99% of the conservatives associated with the CRA/NFRA would not be involved in such a plot.

If you have not read Robert A. Heinlein's "If This Goes On" I highly suggest that you do so. It is a chilling story of the effects of such a takeover of America. I first read it over forty years and it still gives me chills to think about today.

Thank you for your efforts.

LPM

[djreece]

ROFLOL. This is pathetic it is so paranoid. "Christian dominionists" are a tiny fringe group within the religious right. They are very committed and serious in their beliefs, but few share those beliefs. Stoos and Chalcedon thinking that they have power and influence in the party is a delusion.

CRA meetings, both local and statewide, are open to the public. You are welcome to attend. Thank you for making it so clear what a Christian-phobe you are with this baseless smear of Christian conservatives.

[absalom01]

I'm not so sure that he means well.

But, this is an entertaining thread. Heck, I posted, then headed over to the dojo for a workout, and it turns out I shoulda stuck around 'cause there was a better fight going on here!

[B Knotts]

I've seen some goofy threads, but this one has to take the case as the most absolutely idiotic of all time. And that's counting the chemtrail threads from years back.

[LPM1888]

"If This Goes On" appears both in Revolt in 2100 and The Past Through Tomorrow.