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To: TopQuark
I identify myself as a person that believes in free markets and an American

On your previous posts you really do talk a lot about capitalism. You couch your arguments in the fact that you are a capitalist and everyone that opposes you is a socialist. That is a marxian viewpoint.

You say if anyone objects to your ideas of free markets the are socialists If one asks a similar question of socialists, one comes up with an opposite answer

You do not admit the current "free market" trading that you support is not motivated by a benign government whos purpose is to preserve liberty for Americans, but rather on a cabal of socialist finance ministers, who have stated over and over again that the purpose of global trade is to "share the wealth" of the rich nations with the poor. So in fact your argument is incorrect. Your belief in the "free market" as it is applied globally through the WTO is a belief in socialism. You cannot separate the fact that trade agreements are being made by socialist ministers for Americans, who really have no say in the matter at all. You must be able to understand that when you have a group of socialists making policy, then you get socialist policy.

I agree that socialists want to dismantle core American institutions and that is what is happening with "free trade" and the WTO. The core american instution for making trade agreements is congress. Yet the "free market" way of doing things is to have the WTO make our trade agreements through a minister appointed by the president. Also, the president has fast track authority, so trade agreements never have to come up through congress anymore, the trade minister and the president do everything. They go down and meet with the G8 in Mexico or Cancun or Doha. The meetings are secret, there is no light shining in so Americans can know what they are doing. They make the agreements like GATT, volumes in size and impossible for the average American to posess or understand.How is this supporting apple pie and private property? How does this support the idea of self determination?

It doesn't. It really means that the Constitution has been usurped and enormous power has been taken from the congress(who are elected by the American people and can be removed by them if they commit transgressions) and given it over to an unelected minister and a trade body made up of socialist finance ministers. Now tell me, is that American?

How can any thinking individual support free trade as it is being implemented? You keep advocating "free market" and when any American opens the kimono, we see the "free market" is a name for an effort to dismantle congressional authority and give our right as individuals to make decisions regarding trade over to the global socialist WTO. So you can talk about the unemployment rates and stocks or whatever. Our individual rights and Constitutional authority do not exist when the WTO is involved. America cannot act unilaterally to protect itself from hostile trade practices of other WTO members, because that would be against the policy of multilateralism. Anyone who supports "free trade" through the WTO is one of those people you talked about, the people who want to dismantle core American institutions.
37 posted on 10/08/2003 8:14:43 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer
On your previous posts you really do talk a lot about capitalism. You couch your arguments in the fact that you are a capitalist and everyone that opposes you is a socialist. That is a marxian [sic] viewpoint.

There you again. At its most basic level, a "Marxist viewpoint" would involve promoting, or sustaining, a proletarian revolution. And speaking of viewpoints, you should ask yourself whose are those closest to the tradition of Marx, yours or your "free-trading" opponents? In other words, before accusing someone of having Marxist tendencies, you should first explain why the true Marxists stand on your side of the fence.

40 posted on 10/08/2003 9:20:20 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: hedgetrimmer
Sorry, you simply repeat what you said before.

You have grievances that are based on illusion and attribution of motives --- anything but economics. I could not find anything new in your last post to comment on.

Thank you for the exchange.

48 posted on 10/08/2003 9:38:19 AM PDT by TopQuark
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