Equating Arnold's Boorishness and clinton Rapes At Once Patently Absurd and Irrelevant

10.6.03 | Mia T

[MamaLucci]

A point that only the most obtuse, asinine, irrational, idiot would understand. ;)

correction:

A point that only the most obtuse, asinine, irrational, idiot would NOT understand. ;)

[MamaLucci]

Have a good afternoon.

And you.

[NathanR]

My problem is with the over the top analogy that a vote for McClintock dooms the War on Terror. As I said in my previous post, that's probably one of the most asinine and idiotic statements I've ever come across on FR.

Not really. The reality is, that if Arnold loses, it will because of only two things, either Davis wins the recall vote, or Cruz Bustamonte wins part II. Tom McClintock is not even in the picture. If either of those two Democrats wins, the floodgates of "undocumented immigrants" will not be open, no not that, the dam itself will be destroyed. Both Gray and Cruz's actions show that they intend to drive businesses out of the state and the middle class with them and replace them with immigrants from Mexico, that they can dominate. California will, merely as a byproduct, become the most terrorist-friendly state in the union.

[KantianBurke]

The previous posters point had nothing to do with immigration but rather with a convoluted theory regarding the War on Terror and how a McClintock spoiler would hamper it.

Be that as it may, what has Arnold had to say regarding illegals, driver's lis. and their use of govt aid? Is he going to crack down on illegals? How does his views differ from McClintock and Busty?

[NathanR]

McClintock? Probably about the same. (Tom's big issues are fiscal, as are Arnolds.)

But Bustamonte??? You have got to be kiding. Bustamonte wants (or at least MeCHa wants) the whole southwest either to become its own Hispanic country called Aztlan, or to be ceeded back to Mexico.

You have heard about MeCHa and its connections to Bustamonte, haven't you? He is scary, untouchable (because to touch him would be racist) and arguably practises sedition.

[KantianBurke]

Hmm, I'm a bit shaky when it comes to the specifics regarding Arnold's position on immigration versus McClintocks...let's see what the expert on the subject has to say. :> Sabertooth? Ur thoughts?

[Sabertooth]

to the specifics regarding Arnold's position on immigration versus McClintocks

Go here for Arnold's positions on Illegals, in his own words.

[NathanR]

There is a lot there that would give Davis and Bustamonte appoplexy. Especially things like making sure that immigrants come in correctly and become good citizens who are fluent in English.

There are also things that that are stupid as well, eg. if deportation is not the answer, then what is? However this is way better than the status quo, and in line with what Bush is (not) doing to fix this problem.

So what are Tom's positions on this issue?

[Sabertooth]

So what are Tom's positions on this issue?

Here you go, in the context of the recall debate...

MODERATOR: I've thought of something to make this a whole lot more controversial in the area of health care. So why don't each one of you tell us how much money the state of California should spend on health care for the kids of illegal immigrants? Who wants to go?

BUSTAMANTE: I'll go. I'd be more than happy to deal with that immigrant issue because I think that you know the one thing you shouldn't do in life is take it out on the kids. It's not their fault that their parents are here. Let's put that aside for a minute. The people who are here. You know, I know, that sometimes people think that their food comes from Safeway or Ralphs, but it really doesn't. It comes from 70 percent of the people who pick our food and put it on our table are these immigrants. They are also the same people who work hard every day. They pay their taxes. They stay out of trouble with the law. Thirty percent of the construction, 40 percent of the hotels, all these folks who are here, who are working, they are taking care of their families. They are paying taxes. You know, for them not to be able to have a driver's license or to be able to put their kids in school is just plain wrong.

CAMEJO: I just want to say this, the people we are talking about are the lowest paid workers in California who work the hardest, who pay taxes and receive almost no benefits. They are essential to our economy. We loosely use this word, I think totally inappropriately, illegal. No one is going to arrest them. If somebody is illegal, you arrest them. But nobody is going to arrest them because they are essential to California. Everybody knows they are here to stay. They are part of our family. We have to end this apartheid system that we have toward them. They are part of our community and are essential to our economy. I really object to this term illegal. I mean, you know, in the first debate I referred to who came over here totally illegally and it was European Americans who came over here. But they are here. So give them a driver's license, give them their rights. I'm not going to object to that. But these are the people of the indigenous people of this continent. Let's understand that if your economic situation was the same as theirs, you would do exactly the same thing. People all over the world are moving through borders to try to feed their families. Let's look at this as a human problem we face, not as criminality. These are part of our families. We need to help them and work with them and give them medical insurance and the cost that will come about, they are paying for it because right now they are contributing as taxpayers.

SCHWARZENGGER: We have to make sure that every child in California is insured. That is the most important thing. I'm very passionate about children's issues. It is very important because they cannot fend for themselves. The children, we have a healthy family program here in California, and it is a very, very good program (unintelligible). The only problem with the program right now is that only two-thirds of the people that are eligible are not having this health care. And because the government has not done a good job in reaching out and finding the people and letting them know to sign up and find easy ways for them to sign up. Two-thirds of the people that are eligible do not have the child care. It is really terrible. If I become governor l would immediately go out there (unintelligible) and get it out so everyone knows about it and every one signs up because we must insure our families, the low-income families, especially the children.

HUFFINGTON: I'm very glad that Arnold is in favor of providing health care for illegal immigrants. That's really good news because you did vote for 187. And also I'm really glad that you say that because you have also come out against licenses for undocumented immigrants. There is a bit of a contradiction here. In fact, I was really saddened that you are an immigrant who has come out against giving the basic right to immigrants here like trying to drive to go to work or take your kids to school. It's all very well that that you say you are for children, you want them to be insured. But if their parents cannot legally drive them to work in a way that they are insured and safe, don't you think that is a bit of a contradiction?

SCHWARZENEGGER: Arianna, again, as usual, you are off here. We are talking about health care and you are talking about driver's licenses.

HUFFINGTON: But they are connected.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I am against the driver's licenses because it is (unintelligible) Therefore it is dangerous to the security of California. Governor Davis came out about a year ago, had made it clear, has said we cannot do that because it is dangerous. It is a security problem. Notice now because there is an election coming up on Oct. 7, now all of a sudden he says let's get some more votes. That is the idea of this thing. It is wrong to do that. And he knows we have a security problem. The governor is supposed to represent the people of California not special interest. That is the problem.

MCCLINTOCK: I think you are all losing sight of a very important fact, and that is we are talking about families that are in this country in violation of our nation's immigration laws. Now this nation has the most generous immigration policies of any nation in the world. Illegal immigration undermines that process of legal immigration that's the strength of our nation, and there are millions of people who are willing to abide by our immigration laws to come to this nation, become Americans and see their children grow up and prosper as Americans. Illegal immigration is the process of cutting in line in front of them, and I don't believe we should be rewarding such behavior. Illegal immigration is costing this country $4 billion in direct costs out of our treasury by the most conservative estimates available. We've got to make sure our immigration laws are enforced. I led the opposition to the measure on giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants because it undermines the enforcement of our immigration laws.

HUFFINGTON: (unintelligible) We are for taking care of the kids, but not for driving them safely to school or to the emergency room or wherever their health care is to be provided. And ultimately that is a kind of pandering to this Pete Wilson team that you are surrounding yourself with because ultimately they are not going to change. They don't really fundamentally care for those immigrants in this country.

SCHWARZENEGGER: There is no background check. It is dangerous for our security.
Recall Debate Transcript - September 25th, 2003

[NathanR]

But what are McClintock's positions?

I just went to his website(s) and searched. I could not find any position at all on this subject. He seems to be ignoring it completely.

At least Arnold is going somewhat in the right direction.

[KantianBurke]

Just did a quick search on FR.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/965668/posts

[NathanR]

MCCLINTOCK: I think you are all losing sight of a very important fact, and that is we are talking about families that are in this country in violation of our nation's immigration laws. Now this nation has the most generous immigration policies of any nation in the world. Illegal immigration undermines that process of legal immigration that's the strength of our nation, and there are millions of people who are willing to abide by our immigration laws to come to this nation, become Americans and see their children grow up and prosper as Americans. Illegal immigration is the process of cutting in line in front of them, and I don't believe we should be rewarding such behavior. Illegal immigration is costing this country $4 billion in direct costs out of our treasury by the most conservative estimates available. We've got to make sure our immigration laws are enforced. I led the opposition to the measure on giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants because it undermines the enforcement of our immigration laws.

Good position. Unfortunately, when you go to his websites, that issue is ignored completely. Arnold actually has specifics. (Even if somewhat wrongheaded.)

[Sabertooth]

More...

One of the additional burdens on California public schools since the 1960s is illegal immigration and the children of illegal aliens living in the state. Prop. 187, of course, said that illegal aliens would not be entitled to public education in California. Are you willing to enforce at least that element of Prop 187 and make sure that illegal aliens aren’t going to public schools in California?

MCCLINTOCK: I intend to enforce all provisions of Proposition 187. I supported that initiative. I actually ran radio ads for it in 1994. Proposition 187 never had a fair day in court. When it was challenged it was the governor’s responsibility to defend it. He refused to discharge that responsibility. I intend to see that Proposition 187 does have its full, fair hearing in court, and the best way to do that is to begin to enforce it.

You will actually order state agencies under your control as governor to act as if Prop 187 is the law of California?

MCCLINTOCK: I will use every power available to the governor to see that our immigration laws are enforced.

And then you will move forward with an appeal to the U. S. Supreme Court?

MCCLINTOCK: Exactly.

I understand that Gov. Gray Davis made a deal under the auspices of the 9th U.S. Court of Appeals in San Francisco to drop Prop 187, can you at this point simply pick it up and resume that appeal?

MCCLINTOCK: I believe that I can. I certainly will do everything in my power to do so.

Outside of enforcing the provisions of Prop 187 are there any other things that you have planned to deal with the problems caused by illegal immigration in California?

MCCLINTOCK: I intend to bring maximum pressure to bear on the federal government to discharge its fundamental responsibility to protect our borders. I intend to direct all state agencies to do whatever they possibly can to see that our immigration laws are enforced. And I intend to veto legislation such as S.B. 60 that would provide valid state identification documents in the form of California driver’s license to illegal immigrants, the only purpose of which is to undermine our immigration laws. And let me point out, in addition to $4 billion in direct costs of illegal immigration to the state government alone—and that’s a conservative estimate from the Legislative Analyst’s Office—the most damaging thing about illegal immigration is that it undermines the process of legal immigration accompanied by assimilation that is a strength of our nation, and in fact its foundation.

If the Feds refuse to act, will you as governor consider using the state national guard to police California’s border with Mexico?

MCCLINTOCK: As I said, I intend to use every authority available to the governors to enforce our immigration law.

So, you would consider using the National Guard?

MCCLINTOCK: If it is within the authority of the governor.

Gray Davis approved or signed a bill allowing in-state tuition to be given to illegal aliens in Cal-State University campuses, and the UC Board of Regents mirrored that at University of California campuses. Would you seek to reverse that also?

MCCLINTOCK: Yes. I opposed it in the legislature and I would absolutely seek to reverse it.

The argument is often made by people on the other side of this issue that Republicans that support Prop 187 and would cut off funding for various benefits for illegal aliens are in fact anti-Latino. How would you deal with that argument?

MCCLINTOCK: There are millions of Latino families who have obeyed our immigration laws and come to our nation legally with the express purpose of becoming Americans and seeing their children succeed and prosper as Americans. Illegal immigration is a process of cutting in line in front of the people who are obeying our immigration law. And that is not anti-Latino, it is not anti-immigrant. It is unfair to all of those from around the world who have stood in line to obey our laws to grant preference to those who have cut in line in front of them.

It is common belief here in Washington that the Bush White House, particularly Karl Rove, has a strategy to reach out to the Latino vote. Part of this has involved floating the idea of an amnesty for illegal aliens from Mexico, also an unwillingness to engage in any policy, particularly the kinds your talking about now, that might be used to alienate Latino votes, and they would think cost them the state of California in a presidential election in 2004. How would you address those arguments?

MCCLINTOCK: Latino voters are Americans, and I heartily disagree with the notion that Latino voters are somehow different from any other voters. Latino voters care very much about exactly the same issues as every other American, and that includes a great concern over illegal immigration.

Michelle Malkin, the nationally syndicated columnist, reported last week, and so did the Investors Business Daily, that Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante was a member of a group called MEChA when he was a student at Fresno State University, and quoted documents from that group that arguably have a racialist point of view, and a separatist point of view. Are you familiar with this group MEChA, and do you believe that Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante should disavow this group and its views?

MCCLINTOCK: Yes, I am familiar with it, and yes I do believe he should disavow his association with that group.

Why do you believe there has been almost no attention in the liberal press to Bustamante’s association with MEChA?

MCCLINTOCK: (Chuckles.) I can’t imagine why. (Laughter.)

Would you challenge the liberal press to take a look at this story in the course of your campaign, the story of Cruz Bustamante’s association with MEChA?

MCCLINTOCK: All I know is the published reports that indicate his association with that group. If those published reports are correct, I believe that Cruz Bustamante has a great deal of explaining to do, if he still supports the aims of that organization.
A Conversation With Tom McClintock
Human Events - August 28th, 2003

[NathanR]

Unfortunately your link, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/965668/posts only pointed me to a good ad hominem attack against Tom. (American Patrol eh?) , but no actual positions. Sabertooth at least pointed me to what he said in the debate.

Again, he has good positions, but until this year has done almost nothing to advance them. (So far as I know he has not even done that on the immigration issue.)

[68 grunt]

Race, McX couldn't win a hopscotch contest. Arnie stories are BS, and he will be governor. You should use a larger font.

[68 grunt]

Great post, Mia, and right on!

[KantianBurke]

At the end of the thread is an audio link to an interview McClintock did on a radio show that deals with immigration. Try that.

[68 grunt]

McX couldn't win a coin flip, it doesn't matter what his positions are, he's a loser.

[NathanR]

These are the bullet points at http://www.tommcclintock.com/tomsplan/index.cfm
• Car Tax

• Energy

• Workers Compensation

• Government Waste

Here are the "Issues" he thinks are important at his Senate Home Page: http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web/mcclintock/issues.asp

District Legislation
Education
Energy
Family Issues
Fiscal Issues: State Budget & Taxes
Health and Welfare
Infrastructure
Liberty Issues
Miscellaneous
Public Safety
San Fernando Valley Self-Determination
Transportation and Highways
Transportation: Car Tax
Transportation: Diamond Lanes
Transportation: Gasoline Tax
Transportation: Smog Impact Fee


Do you see anything there about immigration? I didn't either.