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To: Tamsey
He was able to recall perfectly how many EMT's were there, what they did to get him out of the car, many of the activities that were performed on him while still with no heartbeat and eyes closed.. and he saw it all from above. A very classical out-of-body death experience... simple brain chemicals can't account for awareness and recall of events from a perspective outside the body.

Sorry, but that kind of thing just isn't very convincing. It's possible for your friend to have sensed or inferred all the necessary data to constuct the "out-of-body" image without actually being out of the body.

After all, even in "normal" perception we construct an apparently complete and seemless picure of reality out of raw sense data that is full of holes and gaps. This is always taking place with your vision, for instance, as studies of eye movement have shown. We don't "actually" see the whole field of view we "think" we see. There are large gaps and discontinuities that our mind is constantly "filling in".

Abrupt changes of perspective, such as percieving ourself to be "out of the body" are rare for most people, but they can be learned with sufficient effort. (It's also possible with sufficient practice to move the locus of self within the body. Normally we feel that the percieving "self" is localized in our head, but it is possible to cultivate a sense of the internal self being localized instead in the chest, or in the stomach.)

Finally, even people who are adept with "out of body" experiences have never been able to prove that they were actually percieving from outside of the body under controlled conditions. E.g. experiments where a subject lying on a bed was asked to read the number on a set of dice resting on a shelf above the bed never produced guesses better than chance, even when the subjects firmly believed they had succeeded in leaving their bodies and reading the dice.

40 posted on 10/04/2003 12:49:36 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: Stultis
After all, even in "normal" perception we construct an apparently complete and seemless picure of reality out of raw sense data that is full of holes and gaps.

While trying to support materialism, you are giving evidence against it. All that our senses perceive is raw sense data. This data is totally unintelligible without the mind processing it and making something out of it. The ability of the mind itself to 'fill the gaps' shows quite well that it is outside of the material and the raw sense impressions which is all that the senses provide and which materialism cannot explain.

122 posted on 10/05/2003 5:29:27 AM PDT by gore3000 ("To say dogs, mice, and humans are all products of slime plus time is a mystery religion.")
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