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To: Lexinom
I think Dr. Luther would condemn what is going on in "evangelical" Christianity today, as would Jesus. Why? Perhaps for several reasons. One reason is that much of what passes for Christian today emphasises the Law and minimises the gospel. And their Law is almost always taught as something you can do! God's Law is exclusive from all the man-made laws of false religion. God's Law is not doable, in that you would have to be perfect. Man-made religious law can actually be accomplished. The Christian teaching is that Christ fulfilled the Law perfectly in our place. If Luther and Jesus were alive today and the only churches going were these megachurches, they wouldn't go!
11 posted on 10/02/2003 7:52:43 PM PDT by loftyheights (Lutheran Loft)
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To: loftyheights
The "undoableness" of God's Law is precisely what drives the Christian to Jesus Christ. And the "end" of all things is God's glory, not man's happiness. They do err in taking an approach to worship that is akin to entertainment, which serves only the latter. But happiness will follow, as the Christian pursues his calling in life (which is usually not evangelism, I might add) and discharges his many offices.

How come this message is now so obscured I wonder? That is what I've been trying to understand for years. We know the ultimate reason: sin. But mediate causes are less clear. How I wish we could find a church where the simple Word is preached, the sacraments properly administered, and the correct God worshipped, correctly. I could care less about a church's desire to cater to my whims as an American consumer; I must stand before God and give an account one day, and none of that other self-serving stuff will matter...
14 posted on 10/02/2003 8:03:55 PM PDT by Lexinom ("No society rises above its idea of God" (unknown))
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To: loftyheights
"If Luther and Jesus were alive today and the only churches going were these megachurches, they wouldn't go!"

I disagree, Jesus always spent time at the synagogues preaching. And as you know these werent generally friendly audiences.
It would be my hope that he would do the same today.
29 posted on 10/02/2003 9:04:17 PM PDT by wallcrawlr
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To: loftyheights
Hi pastor-
I am LCMS.

I agree with your assessment completely. I moved from the mid-west to the south-west and thought that people had lost their minds!! Many don't have any idea that works-oriented religions are the opposite of what the gospel teaches. The doctrine (or lack of) in these mega churches is so muddy that it's almost belief by majority instead of looking to the Word.


78 posted on 10/03/2003 6:58:47 PM PDT by GWfan
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To: loftyheights
**I think Dr. Luther would condemn what is going on in "evangelical" Christianity today, as would Jesus. Why? Perhaps for several reasons. One reason is that much of what passes for Christian today emphasises the Law and minimises the gospel. **

Calvary Chapel would not fall into that category.

108 posted on 10/04/2003 10:37:37 AM PDT by mrs tiggywinkle
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To: loftyheights
God's Law is not doable, in that you would have to be perfect.

Please quote Scripture for such a statement. Please explain WHY within what you call "God's Law" there is PROVISION for forgiveness of sin if it required perfection in keeping? This is such a common misconception by Antinomians that I continue to be baffled by.

"For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it." Deuteronomy 30:11-14

"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1John 5:1-4

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20

"Now behold, one came and said to Him, 'Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?' So He said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.'" Matthew 19:16-17


Was Jesus trying to TRICK him? (no!) Now, don't give me the tired old line about Jesus being perfect so that I don't HAVE to be. He called us to be like Him (OBEDIENT to "God's Law") - and made provision for when we aren't.

"I will give you a new heart and put a new Spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." Ezekiel 36:26-28

"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah - not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jeremiah 31:31-34


God's grace redeems a man or woman - and then His Holy Spirit writes His "Law" on their hearts - and they walk in obedience to Him in love.

"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." John 14:21
118 posted on 10/04/2003 2:52:06 PM PDT by safisoft
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