Megachurches, Megabusinesses

Forbes.com ^ | September 17, 2003 | Luisa Kroll

[Lexinom]

Conventicles can be good or bad. The pastor would do well to study how they worked in the church in the past, what can be gained and what to avoid...

[luckystarmom]

Come to my church. It's not watered down at all.

Of course, it's a small evangelical church.

[CajunConservative]

Come to my church. It's not watered down at all. Of course, it's a small evangelical church.

What church do you go to?

[luckystarmom]

San Jose Vineyard in San Jose, California.

It has about 100 members. All of the sermons are Biblically based. Members are encouraged to join a Home Group which is a smaller group that meets in homes of our members.

It has all the contemporary worship, and I had to get use to that. I grew up in a Methodist church, and I like classical music. However, I'm use to the contemporary music, and I love the sermons and my home group.

My brother has cancer, and it's the first church where almost the whole church is praying for my brother. I like that. In the past I never knew the minister. Now, I know him and his wife, and they are wonderful.

[CajunConservative]

San Jose Vineyard in San Jose, California.

I would love to join you there, only thing is it's a bit far to drive :) I am in south Louisiana unfortunately lol. I think a vineyard fellowship just started here though. Thanks for inviting me though.

[wallcrawlr]

We must simply disagree and I dont want to sound too harsh its just that Im afraid some peoples liturgy becomes a form of legalism.

All things have been created by the Lord and I am not going to place styles of worship "in a box".

Standing in front of the Lord, I would think a Pastor would be more inclined to worry about how many seeds he planted rather than impress the Father with how strict he adhered to traditional worship.

The Bible can cross all boundaries...the Word can be communicated many different ways. I think your examples of a "worldly" church go a little too far. You arent allowing for the fact that God created all those forms of entertainment, music, and whatever else. Isnt it time that Christians take it and use it properly by worshipping the Lord with it.

God has called us to live life abundantely...even you. Allow yourself the chance to have fun with the Lord. Its the best laugh you'll ever have.

[loftyheights]

How about this: God decided to save us sinners on Calvary many years ago and none of us were there, only our sins, each and every one of them. Should we decide for Him? Every day! Only just don't think your decision is what gets you in God's good graces. The merits of Christ are what make you and me look precious in God's eyes. Those merits are bestowed in Holy Preaching, Holy Bapitsm, Holy Absolution and Holy Communion. All our righteousness is but filthy rags. How many crucifixes did your church purchase with the $100,000? You ought to be very, very, very, very, very proud that the cost of your Pageant did not come from your church budget. Lots to hang your salvation hat on there! Pax ticum

[Lexinom]

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven; a time to be born and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up...; A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn and a time to dance;" (Eccl 3:1-4)

There is something beautiful and transcendent about a congregation reciting the Apostle's Creed in unison. They are repeating words recited by the saints for 2,000 years. There is something profoundly powerful and mystical in partaking of the Lord's Supper, feeding on the Body of Christ by faith, drinking His life-giving blood, very often with tears in one's eyes, tears of joy and gratitude.

In the congregational singing, there is something wonderful about knowing that the saints and martyrs gathered before the glassy sea are even now singing before God their Maker.

You may want to visit a sound liturgical church sometime and find out.

"Let us wonder! Grace and justice
Join, and point to mercy's store;
When through grace, in Christ our trust is,
Justice smiles, and asks no more;
He who washed us with His blood;
Has secured our way to God."
- John Newton, Let us love, and sing, and wonder

[Lexinom]

Ping

[RnMomof7]

Thanks ..I will read this

[RnMomof7]

Pastor Rick Warren, who founded Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., in 1980, has deftly used technology as well as marketing to spread his message. His Pastors.com, which reaches 100,000 pastors worldwide each week, has e-mail forums, archives of all of his sermons from the past 22 years and a place to post prayer requests. He also sends a free weekly newsletter, Rick Warren's Ministry Toolbox, to pastors. When it came time to launch his book, The Purpose Driven Life, last year, Warren used Pastors.com to invite churches to participate in a "40 Days of Purpose" event (to correspond with the book's 40 chapters). The 40-day-long event attracted 1,562 churches and was kicked off with a simulcast broadcast to all those churches. Some 267 radio stations ran a "40 days campaign" during the same time period. And a CD of "Songs for a Purpose Driven Life" featuring well-known Christian artists was also released. From the start, the books and CDs were distributed in mass-market retailers such as Wal-Mart (nyse: WMT - news - people ), Costco Wholesale (nasdaq: COST - news - people ), Barnes & Noble (nyse: BKS - news - people ) and Borders Group (nyse: BGP - news - people ). It quickly became a New York Times bestseller and has already sold 5.8 million copies, outselling Billy Graham and making it one of the most successful book promotions in Christian publishing history.

Don't you wonder how Jesus did it with 12 ordinary men , a borrows donkey and boat?

I have studied Warrens method , quite frankly it strikes me a church building with manipulation .

[RnMomof7]

Interesting topic Bump

[wallcrawlr]

I spent about 10 years going to a church that worshipped their liturgy. No thanks. Im done with it.

Take care though.

In Christ.

[Tribune7]

I'd say that items 2 through 7 are good and are the direct result of item 1, which is bad.

[Hank Rearden]

After the rapture, all hell breaks loose, the liberals and the other demonically possessed will swarm over the earth like cockroaches, devouring everything in their path.

Oh, man. You need to cut out the scary movies before bedtime. Or the phony-baloney "church" attendance.

[Chaguito]

Have you read Purpose Driven Life? It is not law-driven and simply challenges people to live their faith among believers and unbelievers. Very straightforward, as are all the biblical calls to the same life.

Have you looked at Purpose Driven web site to see the rationale behind 40 Days of Purpose? "Baptism" holds a most prominent place.

[Dahlseide]

I take exception to #4.

Abortion on demand, or any other kind, merely revealed what has always been central to Christianity. And the leftward shift of the CINO produced the media generated moniker Religious Right.

In other words I do not see either as new phenomena.

[The Grammarian]

Don't just give up, though. While I agree completely with you about "megachurches," and I won't say that radio ministries like MacArthur or John Piper (I think he has a radio broadcast) or The Wesleyan Hour (www.wesleyan.org/twh/) don't do a lot of good, you need to have interaction and involvement with other Christians in order to grow, as well (Hebrews 10:25).

Try to find a church in your area that you can tolerate. Or heck, if you have a group of like-minded Christian friends, I suppose you could set up a house church--meet at someone's house and speak about what the Lord's done in your lives this week and worship him together.

[Liberal Classic]

Interesting article. One of my family members wants me to go to Lakewood Church. I don't know Joel Osteen from Adam, but I do know that Benny Hinn recently held a church service at Lakewood for $75 a pop. What kind of 'church' charges admission? What I do know about Hinn I don't like, but said family member has asked me to come see one of Hinn's services later this month. Has anyone been or know someone who has been to one of Hinn's "healing crusades?" I don't know what to expect.

Two verses come to mind:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (matthew)

and

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (thessalonians)

[Chaguito]

I know a few of those coarse fellows in megachurches, and I'm pretty sure that they love you in Christ, in spite of your condescension. And we who do not share your liturgical prepossession will try to stay out of your way on the road to heaven.