Posted on 10/02/2003 6:28:22 PM PDT by anncoulteriscool
Correct.
The answer is that some are and some aren't. Just like the little churches.
Amen and amen.
Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."
Sometimes, people get hung up on law keeping and think that those who put their faith completely in Christ for salvation do nothing for the Lord. They are wrong.
The Bible itself is a book of doctrine, full of doctrinal knowledge. Your very act of reading it is a study of doctrine. God doesn't speak to us with pictures, shows, or even music. He speaks through paper and ink, water, bread and wine. Words. Doctrine. "In the beginning was the Word (logos)..."
God is also sovereign, and HE knows (and chose) whom he will save. For this reason, we can have great hope for infants who die, for the mentally incapacited, for those who are insane, for "vegetables". Their entrance into the kingdom of God does not depend (thankfully) upon their decision, but upon His sovereign, unmerited grace. "I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy."
Christ did not posture himself weakly and beg the woman at the well to accept Him into her heart (a popular concept that finds no support in Scripture). He commanded her, "Go and sin no more." Her inability to keep that command, drove her to the cross, to the One who did keep the Law, perfectly, and paid her debt with unspeakable suffering. Her gratitude, if she was indeed saved, led her to love God by keeping His commandments, not as a condition to salvation but as a fruit thereof.
What is Gnostic is a rejection of things altogether indifferent, such as smoking and moderate alcohol consumption, as sinful, while placing an undue emphasis on "being spiritual". Saying that smoking and alcohol consumption are sinful while refusing to acknowledge any relevance for the Ten Commandments, and assuming that the sacraments are just meaningless procedures without attributing any spirital value to them because "what's really important is the spiritual" is far more akin to Gnosticism than anything the Lutherans might do, who are most certainly NOT Gnostics.
Interestingly, if you look at modern church building construction, you will notice the materials and styles often reflect the "light and airy". Synthetic materials and clear glass have replaced heavy wood, brick, and stone.
No doubt about that...
God doesn't speak to us with pictures, shows, or even music. He speaks through paper and ink, water, bread and wine. Words. Doctrine. "In the beginning was the Word (logos)..."
While I would NEVER argue the experience over the Word, that way lies mega-heresy, your conceptiuon of God is way too limited if he's never spoken to you through a song. The Word is the final athority, but it is far from the only way God can touch a person. We must be areful not to attempt to limit him.
God is also sovereign, and HE knows (and chose) whom he will save. For this reason, we can have great hope for infants who die, for the mentally incapacited, for those who are insane, for "vegetables". Their entrance into the kingdom of God does not depend (thankfully) upon their decision, but upon His sovereign, unmerited grace. "I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy."
Amen. Still waiting on you to get to the point of the thread.
Christ did not posture himself weakly and beg the woman at the well to accept Him into her heart (a popular concept that finds no support in Scripture).
I pay some attention and I've never heard it taught that he did any begging.
He commanded her, "Go and sin no more." Her inability to keep that command, drove her to the cross, to the One who did keep the Law, perfectly, and paid her debt with unspeakable suffering. Her gratitude, if she was indeed saved, led her to love God by keeping His commandments, not as a condition to salvation but as a fruit thereof.
I fully agree. But I can't see the connection between any of this and the point of this thread.
What is Gnostic is a rejection of things altogether indifferent, such as smoking and moderate alcohol consumption, as sinful, while placing an undue emphasis on "being spiritual". Saying that smoking and alcohol consumption are sinful while refusing to acknowledge any relevance for the Ten Commandments, and assuming that the sacraments are just meaningless procedures without attributing any spirital value to them because "what's really important is the spiritual" is far more akin to Gnosticism than anything the Lutherans might do, who are most certainly NOT Gnostics.
1. None of the Saddleback-type churches I was defending (and I by NO MEANS defend heretical folks like Dollar...Warren and his copycats are generally Baptist and it is their positions I speak of here) Have EVER dismissed the importance of the Commandments OR the Sacraments. I frankly have no idea where you get this accusation.
2. I did not say "All Lutherans are gnostic" I said, or rather implied, that YOUR personnal assertion that one needs to be stteped in theological education to approch the door of the church was a gnostic-ist position. I do not belive you speak for the official position of the Lutheran church.
Interestingly, if you look at modern church building construction, you will notice the materials and styles often reflect the "light and airy". Synthetic materials and clear glass have replaced heavy wood, brick, and stone.
Which means......?
Probably not, since I'm not a Lutheran.
But I can't see the connection between any of this and the point of this thread.
The point, and relevance to the thread, is that the God worshipped in these churches, as seen by the way he is approached (using the world's music, entertaining style, what have you) is too small. Activities that go on there (at least the megachurches and other contemporary groups I've visited) are largely man-centric. Walking through the door, you generally don't get a sense of the holiness of God. The fact that these churches have grown so large indicates that a myopic view of God has permeated our culture. And that, I think, is eminently relevant to the subject of this thread.
I'm sorry if anything I've said has offended you; it's not the flock I'm after, it's the pastors and corporate gurus driving this movement. But everything we are discussing is vitally important to the culture, moreso than having the GOP control every branch of government.
Man oh man..you are WAY off base...
you should ditch the Pentecostal/Charismatic/Snake-Handlers and look in the New Testament to see what it really says about people who try and predict the Day...especially supposedly religious people.
I love MacArthur. I have alot of his books and tapes. MacArthur has a tape out called "Does the Truth Matter" about these issues of watering down doctrine. Its an excellent tape.
It's a quantum leap to claim those who believe in the Rapture are = to those predicting "a" particular day. Second you are 180 degrees off anyway. The Bible commands us to live righteously; even more so "as we see the day approaching".
So G_d gives a command, to follow provisionally, upon actively looking for, and being able to see, that day approaching. (Don't argue with me; not my words....)
Or, kindly explain for us the interpetation of that text.
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