Kay Briefs Lawmakers on Iraq WMD

Reuters via Yahoo ^ | 10/2/03 | Rueters

[So Cal Rocket]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - CIA adviser David Kay, who is coordinating the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq briefed U.S. lawmakers on Thursday with an interim progress report.

Kay separately briefed the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate intelligence committees behind closed doors in what lawmakers called a highly classified session from which they emerged tight-lipped.

Kay was not expected to produce any solid evidence that chemical or biological weapons had been found, sources have said previously.

The United States went to war against Iraq in March and ousted Saddam Hussein from power in April, largely citing the threat posed by Baghdad's biological and chemical weapons programs and a program to develop nuclear weapons.

But critics have questioned whether the Bush administration exaggerated the threat to get support for the war because no such weapons have been found since U.S. forces invaded Iraq.

Others have urged patience, saying that Iraq is a large country and such weapons are relatively easy to hide.

Last month, the CIA said Kay would present an interim report that would reach no firm conclusions.

When Kay briefed lawmakers in July, he said there could be "surprises" uncovered, but congressional sources have said they were unaware of any major surprises.

[alnick]

Where have the ties between Iraq and al Qaeda been exquisitely detailed? I haven't even heard that from the Bush administration. Yes, there are al Qaeda in Iraq now, as well as jihadis from all over the world, but I hadn't heard a clear link that they were there before the world. Even George Bush said we have no evidence of a link between Saddam and 9/11. Thanks.

You're equating a proven link to Al Qaeda with a proven link to 9/11. They're two completely different things. The admin has stated, repeatedly and by several members, that there is certainly linkage between AQ and Iraq. They've also said that they don't have hard evidence of a linkage between Iraq and 9/11.

Regardless of the distinction, the Bush admin's political enemies like to pretend that a link to AQ is the same as a link to 9/11. All the better to twist the admin's words.

[alpowolf]

Read my #68

[edchambers]

indifference towards N Korea until just recently. You remember N Korea don't you? They actually have and admit to having WMDs.

OK so what would YOU have us do about N Korea? Bomb em? invade? or talk em to death.There is really no good solution there is enough ordinance on both sides to literally destroy the entire Korean peninsila and kill thousands.We can defeat them militarily but what about China? do we really want to go down that road?

[billbears]

OK so what would YOU have us do about N Korea? Bomb em? invade? or talk em to death.There is really no good solution there is enough ordinance on both sides to literally destroy the entire Korean peninsila and kill thousand

Oh, I get the current 'policy' now. Apparently since 'we' can't do anything about North Korea, 'we' decide that bombing a third world nation that did not present a direct and present threat to the borders of this nation is a viable solution. Sure, that makes sense..

[billbears]

Have you ever even read one UN resolution that details the WMD?

What do I care what the UN resolutions say? Is this nation of states sovereign or not? Or apparently to Bush and Friends, sovereign when it needs to be, and not sovereign when wars started on falsehood come back to roost as bad PR? I thought conservatives could care less what the UN does. Or do 'we' care when it suits our needs only?

Go read a little and educate yourself. It might help you make your point in the future.

What? Press releases from the White House? Weekly Standard articles? PNAC 'press releases'? No thanks, I sat through the SOTU address and realized quite quickly he would never be able to prove many of the points as outlined. Oh, but we're only supposed to hold liberals to every word, not 'conservatives' is that it?

[Peach]

The point of the UN resolutions is that the threshold was very high in terms of whether Iraq had WMD.

I of course do not want us to surrender ANYTHING to the UN.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[billbears]

You can disagree all you want. The facts are that no WMDs have been found and Kay's 'blockbuster' report was a flat out bust. Frankly, I'm beyond disappointed. I truly believed this President to be a good man to be surrounded by somewhat normal advisors. I still believe him to be a good man, but his staff has put him into this position. The first thing he needs to do is fire every person even remotely connected to the PNAC

[Peach]

No WMD have been found YET.

As a soldier in Iraq said, we have found the coffee filter, the coffee maker, the coffee grounds, the sugar and cream. We just don't have coffee.

But, as I said, you've made your position abundantly clear. You aren't going to convince me of anything and I'm not going to convince you.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[edchambers]

Oh, I get the current 'policy' now. Apparently since 'we' can't do anything about North Korea, 'we' decide that bombing a third world nation that did not present a direct and present threat to the borders of this nation is a viable solution. Sure, that makes sense..

It works for me! But seriously do you actually believe that Saddam did NOTHING to deserve being overthrown?He didn't attempt to assasinate Bush41 and the Emire of Kuwait?He didn't pay off the familys of Palistinian suicide bombers?He didn't support terrorist traing camps?He didn't torture,rape and kill his own people? oh yea, none of our buisiness so long as he didn't directly attack the continental US right?

[billbears]

He didn't pay off the familys of Palistinian suicide bombers?

If he did, it was quite a bit less than Arafat and the Saudis. Seen an invasion of Saudi Arabia? How about a dismissal of Arafat as any sort of leader? Nope. One's our 'ally' and the other is accepted as a leader of a bunch of squatters

He didn't support terrorist traing camps?

Again we could sit here and name half the Arab world that does that and still continues. Any plans to eradicate them? Thought not. The pressing 'reason' was WMDs

He didn't torture,rape and kill his own people?

Wow, you know I went over and over the Constitution and for the life of me could not find 'to prevent torture, rape, and killing of another nation's people' by their leader. Considering especially that some of this 'killing' occurred under the eye of the US in the 1980s with nothing done then. Ah, but Iraq was the lesser of two evils then wasn't it? Funny how policy changes on the whim of public opinion and polls. One reason why I do not support either party working outside the bounds of the Constitution and will call every politician on it no matter what party

oh yea, none of our buisiness so long as he didn't directly attack the continental US right?

Can you find something contrary to that point as outlined in the Constitution?

[billbears]

As a soldier in Iraq said, we have found the coffee filter, the coffee maker, the coffee grounds, the sugar and cream. We just don't have coffee.

You know I would accept that as finding some evidence. But not even that has been found. Some bags of beans used for fertilizer and a half buried 12 year old centrifuge. Some weapons 'program'...

[Peach]

Now there I have to disagree. One has only to listen to Kay and read some of the transcripts about what they've found. AND - this is only the stuff that's been leaked as the unclassification won't happen for another few days.

Forget about the classified stuff - we won't hear about that (except through leaks).

[billbears]

One has only to listen to Kay and read some of the transcripts about what they've found

You mean this David Kay? From the bastion of neocon support and administration flagwaving, the article tonight from Fox News. Note they try to spice it up at the beginning but finally toward the end admit

According to a source with knowledge of the closed-door House meeting, when Kay was asked point-blank by one House member whether he had found any weapons of mass destruction, Kay said no. Asked if he is going to find any, Kay replied, "I don't know."

Now that's confidence

Here

[Peach]

I've seen that commentary from Kay. What I don't think you've seen is where he says they've found everything that makes WMD. In other words, everything but the coffee.

[lasereye]

What isn't Bush going along with? Iraq 9/11 connection has always been a matter of speculation, not hard evidence. Bush never said there was a 9/11 connection.

[Constantine XIII]

Aye, but back in the day Iraq handn't signed a ceasefire that called for proof of disarmament within 30 days of the end of combat or else.

The whole 12 year rush to war was simply delay after delay of that original 30 day deadline.

Since they wouldn't let us look like they agreed, we were in the right regardless of whether they were actually there or not.

IIRC, o' course! :p

[billbears]

whether he had found any weapons of mass destruction, Kay said no.

I imagine most of us have materials in our household that if mixed probably could make something down and nasty. So I have ingredients, does that make me some sort of dictator that needs to be taken out of power?

They found bags of beans. Beans that when used in one way can be used for WMDs. But they didn't find the equipment to make those beans into WMDs did they? Never mind the beans were marked fertilizer, which BTW is a worldwide usage for castor beans..

Kay is trying to spice up a turkey, plain and simple. The administration has lost face in the eyes of the world and it has lost face among more than a few conservatives. Sure it may have gained some liberals in its over eager passage of a form of nationalized healthcare, but not I think enough to offset the daily loss of conservatives that are tired of being ignored in the face of this all war, big government bureaucracy that Bush has created

[Peach]

For the third time, we'll have to agree to disagree. Completely. 100%.

[Peach]

WMD: Blair was right
The Online Sun (United Kingdom) ^ | Thursday, October 2, 2003 | TREVOR KAVANAGH



WMD: Blair was right

WMD threat ... Iraq negotiated with North Korea

By TREVOR KAVANAGH Political Editor

A TERRIFYING new probe yesterday revealed Saddam Hussein WAS secretly preparing for chemical, biological and even nuclear war.

The 13-page document, compiled from the reports of 1,200 arms experts who have been scouring Iraq for two months, says Saddam was determined to resume building nukes.

And he was already negotiating with rogue state North Korea to buy long-range rockets that could have launched nuclear AND chemical warheads at UK bases in the Med.

The experts also unearthed secret bio-weapons labs, new strains of lethal diseases, a deadly bug hidden in a scientist’s home — and evidence of possible chemical weapon tests on human victims.

The report, from America’s Iraq Survey Group, totally vindicates Tony Blair’s decision to go to war over WMDs.

ISG chief Dr David Kay says in the report: “We have discovered dozens of WMD-related programme activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the UN.”

Dr Kay’s full report — revealed to US congressmen yesterday — is still top secret.

Vindicated ... Tony Blair But last night Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said: “It has produced conclusive and incontrovertible evidence that Iraq was in material breach of UN Resolution 1441.”

In his report, Dr Kay admits no actual weapons of mass destruction have yet been found.

But he points out that his experts from America, Britain and Australia have faced a campaign of sabotage, looting, and obstruction — and have been subjected to bombings, firefights and threats.

Nevertheless, they have proved Saddam was planning to acquire long-range missiles, possibly nuclear-tipped.

These missiles could have hit UK bases in Cyprus, Turkey and Cairo — as The Sun revealed in September.

Dr Kay says: “There were plans and advanced design work for new long range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000km — well beyond the 150km limit set by the UN.”

The experts found evidence of “clandestine attempts” between late 1999 and 2002 to get from North Korea technology related to its 1300km No Dong missiles.

Saddam ... making secret plans Chillingly, they also unearthed documents and equipment concealed in scientists’ homes for “resuming uranium enrichment” — a key stage in the making of nukes.

And Iraqi scientists interviewed by the ISG team confirmed Saddam was determined to develop them.

Dr Kay, a former UN weapons inspector credited with dismantling Saddam’s nuclear programme in the 1990s, says: “They have told us Saddam remained firmly committed to acquiring nuclear weapons.

“At least one senior Iraqi official believed, by 2000, Saddam had run out of patience with waiting for sanctions to end and wanted to restart the nuclear programme.”

ISG experts found a vial of “live” botulism hidden in an Iraqi scientist’s home — and fear others are still at large.

Dr Kay’s report says: “The scientist who concealed the vial has identified a large cache of agents that he was asked, but refused, to conceal. The group is searching for the second cache. One ex-biological weapons scientist confirmed a production line could be switched to produce anthrax in a week.”

The report also highlights a “network of labs and safehouses” containing equipment suitable for chemical and biological weapons research.

And it found evidence of a “prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of biological weapon agents” — again explicitly concealed from the UN.

The experts also uncovered “new research” on deadly viruses Brucella, Congo Crimean Haemorrhagic Fever, ricin and aflatoxin.

Warning ... Sun, Sept 2002 The report says other members of the team discovered a “covert capability” to make fuel propellant useful ONLY for banned Scud missiles. Dr Kay says the hunt was hampered by Iraqi obstruction, secrecy and sabotage.

He adds: “Looting destroyed important evidence of Iraq’s WMD programme. This was deliberate. Some personnel crossed borders before and during the conflict and may have taken evidence and weapons-related material.

“Even the bulkiest materials we are searching for can be concealed in spaces not much larger than a two-car garage.”

Dr Kay said that the ISG team also had the monumental task of examining Iraq’s huge conventional weapons caches. So far only ten of 130 have been rigorously searched.

He said the nuclear programme appeared to be in its early stages, adding: “The evidence we found will suggest a very tentative restart at the very most rudimentary level.”

Downing Street last night hailed Dr Kay’s interim report as dramatic evidence of Saddam’s lies.

And a top security source said last night: “This is just the tip of the iceberg.”

Last night the Ministry of Defence said the vial of botulism found in the Iraqi scientist’s home could have been “weaponised” within 48 hours.

---

Dithering UN did not want to know Commentary by TREVOR KAVANAGH

WHAT is most surprising about the damning new evidence against Saddam Hussein is that it should come as a surprise at all.

There was ample proof long before America and Britain went to war that Saddam was spoiling for a fight. The dithering UN just didn’t want to know.

What must shock even those like French President Jacques Chirac, who led the crusade to stop us invading, is his terrifying pursuit of nukes.

Dr David Kay’s report, certain to be howled down by the conspiracy-obsessed anti-war brigade, does more than justify ousting Saddam.

It proves beyond doubt that it was a virtuous act for which the world should be truly grateful.

WMD proof ... David Kay We now know this tyrant had “run out of patience” and was determined to make Iraq the Arab world’s nuclear power. Uranium enrichment was planned and a supply of ballistic missiles capable of delivering warheads as far away as Cairo, Turkey — and Israel — was being teed-up with North Korea.

Iraq and North Korea are countries controversially but correctly identified by President George Bush as the “Axis of Evil”.

That axis includes Iran which is now trying to build nuclear power stations and has warned it might one day use nukes against Israel.

Saudi Arabia is slyly trying to obtain nukes from Pakistan. Egypt wants a nuclear powered desalination plant. The risk of anti-Western regimes going nuclear is too horrifying to contemplate.

That risk has been substantially reduced by the salutary demonstration of America’s — and Britain’s — display of resolution and military might.

Left to the tender care of the limp-wristed UN, Saddam would have continued to develop WMDs.

And one day, without a shadow of a doubt, he would have used them — to devastating effect on world peace.

[billbears]

Vindicated ... Tony Blair But last night Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said: “It has produced conclusive and incontrovertible evidence that Iraq was in material breach of UN Resolution 1441.”

Having missiles that could fire for a 1000 miles isn't exactly vindication. Compared to finding WMDs. I bet there are other nations out there that have medium range missiles too. Going to invade them next? BTW, how far is Iraq from the borders of this nation? Within 1000 miles? Thought not. But leave it to the Brits to play it up as well as they can. The Sun is their 'conservative' paper over there isn't it?

In his report, Dr Kay admits no actual weapons of mass destruction have yet been found.

And that right there is the point and all that needs to be said. No WMDs, no threat. No threat, no war. Well except in PNAC land....