(Minnesota) Shooting Puts Focus on Gun Shows

St. Paul Pioneer Press ^ | 10/2/03 | Amy Mayron

[brbethke]

Posted on Thu, Oct. 02, 2003

Shooting puts focus on gun shows
BY AMY MAYRON
Pioneer Press

The antique revolver Susan Berkovitz allegedly used Monday to kill her cousin and wound a lawyer was purchased at a gun show, where she didn't need a permit to buy it.

At such shows, unlicensed firearms dealers can sell weapons to anyone who attends with minimal to no paperwork and no background check. Licensed dealers must follow federal guidelines requiring a full criminal background check before making a sale.

Gun-show sales are controversial, with federal legislation frequently proposed that would require everyone who buys a gun, no matter where, to submit to background checks. But so far, no such federal regulations have passed.

Law enforcement and gun- control advocates have long criticized gun shows, blaming them for putting weapons in the hands of criminals who wouldn't have been able to buy them from licensed sellers.

But gun-rights proponents say there's little evidence linking any extensive unlicensed gun-show sales to criminal activity.

However, several high-profile incidents have prompted lawmakers to revisit the issue.

In 1999, Congress took up the issue after it was discovered that the two suspects in the deadly Columbine High School shooting in Littleton, Colo., bought their guns at a gun show. And this week's shooting at the Hennepin County Government Center could prompt calls for action.

"When people find out about this loophole, they are just horrified," said Joe Sudbay, public policy director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control advocacy group in Washington, D.C. "It just doesn't make sense. People think if you get a gun in the U.S., you need a background check. That's just not the case."

Several states, such as Florida, Colorado, Oregon, New York and California, have passed laws requiring background checks for all gun-sale transactions — not just those done through licensed dealers, Sudbay said.

Joe Olson, a law professor at Hamline University who drafted Minnesota's new handguncarrying statute, doubts that many criminals get their weapons from gun shows. It's more likely, he said, they're lying to authorities about the origins of their guns when they say the weapons came from gun shows.

Olson also said studies have shown that a vast majority of guns used by criminals for street crimes are purchased through a black market for weapons that is tied to narcotics dealings.

Gun shows are like any other hobby show, largely attended by collectors with similar interests. There was one such show last weekend at the State Fairgrounds, next to an antiques show, Olson said.

"You couldn't tell the difference in people going to one or the other," he said.

Some state legislators said the courthouse shooting should prompt a review of weapons laws, especially relating to gun shows. But they doubted that such legislation would pass in the current political climate.

Sen. Wes Skoglund, DFL-Minneapolis, said he has introduced legislation in the past requiring background checks for people purchasing weapons at gun shows. But he said there has never been enough political support.

"If you've got a criminal background and you've been adjudicated mentally ill, go to a gun show," Skoglund said. "They don't check, unless you're a licensed firearm dealer selling there." Kermit Pattison contributed to this report.

[brbethke]

Why don't they call it a "flea market loophole" or "rummage sale loophole?" Having been to all three, I think you're far more likely to find a private party selling a privately owned firearm at a rummage sale or flea market -- or in classified ad section 298 of the St. Paul Pioneer Press -- than at a gun show where an exhibitor must rent a table.

[brbethke]

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[Joe Brower]

[Servant of the 9]

If it was in fact an antique, Made before 1899, then it was not legally a firearm and would not require a background check anywhere, including gunstores.

SO9

[Puppage]

At such shows, unlicensed firearms dealers can sell weapons to anyone who attends with minimal to no paperwork and no background check

LIES,LIES and MORE LIES!!

[coloradan]

In 1999, Congress took up the issue after it was discovered that the two suspects in the deadly Columbine High School shooting in Littleton, Colo., bought their guns at a gun show.

LIE!! The killers bought their guns from straw purchase buyer Robyn Anderson, who bought them at a gun show. She had a clean record and would have passed any check.

[Puppage]

unlicensed firearms dealers...

Yes, the tee shirt dealers, beef jerky booths, etc.

[Kenton]

Selling a privately-owned firearm doesn't make one an "unlicensed gun dealer" any more than selling a used car makes one an unlicensed used car dealer.

[Hunble]

At such shows, unlicensed firearms dealers can sell weapons to anyone who attends with minimal to no paperwork and no background check. Licensed dealers must follow federal guidelines requiring a full criminal background check before making a sale.

Has something changed recently? I thought this was an accurate statement.

[Hunble]

"privately-owned firearm" verses "unlicensed gun dealer"

You just answered my question.

[Eastbound]

"LIE!! The killers bought their guns from straw purchase buyer Robyn Anderson, who bought them at a gun show. She had a clean record and would have passed any check."

Amy Mayron bought an unlicensed typewriter at a yard sale and used it to kill the truth.

[Atlas Sneezed]

At such shows, unlicensed firearms dealers can sell weapons to anyone who attends with minimal to no paperwork and no background check. Licensed dealers must follow federal guidelines requiring a full criminal background check before making a sale.

Has something changed recently? I thought this was an accurate statement

---

There is no such thing as an "unlicensed dealer". You are either a dealer (and licensed) or a private seller.

[G-Bear]

The lie in this sentence is "unlicensed firearms dealer." Ain't no such thing. Anybody can sell their personal property to anybody at any time. (So far, anyway!) Selling Grampaw's antique shotgun to a collector, at a gun show or in your living room, does not make you a "dealer."

A dealer has to have a firearms license in order to buy guns wholesale from a distributor, and sell them retail to customers. A dealer has to follow all laws, fill out forms, do background checks, and everything else, at his storefront or at a gunshow.

(I used to be a FFL dealer, gave it up when it became too much of a hassle.)

[Travis McGee]

I'll be amazed if it's still legal in ten years to privately sell a firearm, without filling out reams of state and federal paperwork, and getting government permission.

That's the end game: virtual gun registration through the back door.

[coloradan]

unlicensed firearms dealers can sell weapons to anyone who attends

This is a half-truth. They can, but it is illegal for criminals to buy guns. But calling this a gun-show "loophole" is the same as calling it the "street corner loophole" that allows people to buy and sell drugs, even though this, too, is completely illegal. And there's the "unattended driver loophole" that allows drivers to exceed the speed limit, given that police officers aren't yet required to ride along with drivers in the passenger seat, to monitor compliance with the law.

[joesnuffy]

I support deh Brady Bill....& the Assault Rifle Ban (except for me of course)
and Ve mus closs deh gun show loophol
-A. Rinonegger

[Puppage]

At such shows, unlicensed firearms dealers can sell weapons to anyone who attends with minimal to no paperwork and no background check.

And, people can commit murder, too. Does that mean murder is legal? An unlicensed firearms dealer is ILLEGAL. There is no such thing as a "gunshow loophole".

When you buy a gun from a dealer at a gunshow, it's the same procedure as if you were in his store.

The reason you think it's an accurate statement is because the media has been pounding into people heads that it is true.

[Puppage]

unlicensed firearms dealers can sell weapons to anyone who attends

Ah, NO THEY CAN'T.

UNLICENSEDdealers are THEMSELVES, ILLEGAL

[Kadric]

"The lie in this sentence is "unlicensed firearms dealer." Ain't no such thing. Anybody can sell their personal property to anybody at any time. (So far, anyway!) Selling Grampaw's antique shotgun to a collector, at a gun show or in your living room, does not make you a "dealer."

Close even a private seller must comply with the law to the best of their ability. Restricted to in state sales, not selling to a knowingly prohibited person. In those states that have laws dealing with sales they must comply with them, Ie CA all handgun sales must go through a licensed dealer.