Posted on 10/02/2003 6:54:31 AM PDT by brbethke
Posted on Thu, Oct. 02, 2003
Shooting puts focus on gun shows
BY AMY MAYRON
Pioneer Press
The antique revolver Susan Berkovitz allegedly used Monday to kill her cousin and wound a lawyer was purchased at a gun show, where she didn't need a permit to buy it.
At such shows, unlicensed firearms dealers can sell weapons to anyone who attends with minimal to no paperwork and no background check. Licensed dealers must follow federal guidelines requiring a full criminal background check before making a sale.
Gun-show sales are controversial, with federal legislation frequently proposed that would require everyone who buys a gun, no matter where, to submit to background checks. But so far, no such federal regulations have passed.
Law enforcement and gun- control advocates have long criticized gun shows, blaming them for putting weapons in the hands of criminals who wouldn't have been able to buy them from licensed sellers.
But gun-rights proponents say there's little evidence linking any extensive unlicensed gun-show sales to criminal activity.
However, several high-profile incidents have prompted lawmakers to revisit the issue.
In 1999, Congress took up the issue after it was discovered that the two suspects in the deadly Columbine High School shooting in Littleton, Colo., bought their guns at a gun show. And this week's shooting at the Hennepin County Government Center could prompt calls for action.
"When people find out about this loophole, they are just horrified," said Joe Sudbay, public policy director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control advocacy group in Washington, D.C. "It just doesn't make sense. People think if you get a gun in the U.S., you need a background check. That's just not the case."
Several states, such as Florida, Colorado, Oregon, New York and California, have passed laws requiring background checks for all gun-sale transactions — not just those done through licensed dealers, Sudbay said.
Joe Olson, a law professor at Hamline University who drafted Minnesota's new handguncarrying statute, doubts that many criminals get their weapons from gun shows. It's more likely, he said, they're lying to authorities about the origins of their guns when they say the weapons came from gun shows.
Olson also said studies have shown that a vast majority of guns used by criminals for street crimes are purchased through a black market for weapons that is tied to narcotics dealings.
Gun shows are like any other hobby show, largely attended by collectors with similar interests. There was one such show last weekend at the State Fairgrounds, next to an antiques show, Olson said.
"You couldn't tell the difference in people going to one or the other," he said.
Some state legislators said the courthouse shooting should prompt a review of weapons laws, especially relating to gun shows. But they doubted that such legislation would pass in the current political climate.
Sen. Wes Skoglund, DFL-Minneapolis, said he has introduced legislation in the past requiring background checks for people purchasing weapons at gun shows. But he said there has never been enough political support.
"If you've got a criminal background and you've been adjudicated mentally ill, go to a gun show," Skoglund said. "They don't check, unless you're a licensed firearm dealer selling there." Kermit Pattison contributed to this report.
I find B(ii) an interesting exception: what exactly does "not readily in the ordinary channels of commercial trade" mean? Does the Old Western Scrounger qualify as an ordinary channel? Almost anything is shootable if you have a source of adaptable brass and the right forming dies. They even make replacement center-fire blocks for rimfire Spencers and Henrys. Does forming your own .50-70 brass or installing a replacement block constitute a redesign under B(i)?
(I suspect that for practical purposes, the law is whatever the ATF decides to enforce this week.)
I find B(ii) an interesting exception: what exactly does "not readily in the ordinary channels of commercial trade" mean? Does the Old Western Scrounger qualify as an ordinary channel? Almost anything is shootable if you have a source of adaptable brass and the right forming dies. They even make replacement center-fire blocks for rimfire Spencers and Henrys. Does forming your own .50-70 brass or installing a replacement block constitute a redesign under B(i)?
(I suspect that for practical purposes, the law is whatever the ATF decides to enforce this week.)
I find B(ii) an interesting exception: what exactly does "not readily in the ordinary channels of commercial trade" mean? Does the Old Western Scrounger qualify as an ordinary channel? Almost anything is shootable if you have a source of adaptable brass and the right forming dies. They even make replacement center-fire blocks for rimfire Spencers and Henrys. Does forming your own .50-70 brass or installing a replacement block constitute a redesign under B(i)?
(I suspect that for practical purposes, the law is whatever the ATF decides to enforce this week.)
I find B(ii) an interesting exception: what exactly does "not readily in the ordinary channels of commercial trade" mean? Does the Old Western Scrounger qualify as an ordinary channel? Almost anything is shootable if you have a source of adaptable brass and the right forming dies. They even make replacement center-fire blocks for rimfire Spencers and Henrys. Does forming your own .50-70 brass or installing a replacement block constitute a redesign under B(i)?
(I suspect that for practical purposes, the law is whatever the ATF decides to enforce this week.)
I find B(ii) an interesting exception: what exactly does "not readily in the ordinary channels of commercial trade" mean? Does the Old Western Scrounger qualify as an ordinary channel? Almost anything is shootable if you have a source of adaptable brass and the right forming dies. They even make replacement center-fire blocks for rimfire Spencers and Henrys. Does forming your own .50-70 brass or installing a replacement block constitute a redesign under B(i)?
Dumbocrats: 'Hullo, Chicago? Hey, you'se guys. We need three truckloads of hanging chads and another five million phantom ballots out here pronto. And don't forget to update the cemetery lists -- And don't screw up like you did in Florida, ya hear?
and/or
'Hullo, NES? The check is in the mail. You know what to do.'
Admin/Moderator: is it possible to delete posts 44 to 47?
Coupla questions: do you need a "permit" to buy a handgun in MN? Also, would this lady have been denied because of something in the NICS check?
The reports so far indicate she would not have been rejected by NICS, because despite her long history of mental problems, she'd never been committed.
If you're buying from a private party, of course, the only limits are the ethics of the seller.
The touch-screen tampering will require a new generation of young hackers to cause the "touches" to go 'rat.
Or buy one from a crooked cop or police employee. Of course they want all sales going through dealers; that'll leave them with a near-monopoly on under-the-table sales.
Just like a lot of them do with narcotics.
-archy-/-
Or, alternately, neither would it surprise me if there's a bounty for those who promoted and enforced such schemes:
*You do any good this season?*
*Yep! Got two, one state, one federal. Here's their ears, fingerprints and IDs....*
*Kewl! Give ya an M4 SOPMOD with an M203 and an MP5SD for 'em....*
-archy-/-
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