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To: Can i say that here?
None of my statements were socialist. I've offered no support for any type of federal action whatsoever. You support the use of Hb-1 workers which is only possible if the federal government grants companies permission to do so and then you claim that telling the federal government to quit is socialist.

OK, fine... we both are against federal government intervention. So here's the deal: we end the H1-B program completely and let anyone from India who would like to move here to do so. No restrictions on businesses, no federal government telling Americans who they can and can't hire, no federal H1-B programs. Would that be OK with you?

426 posted on 10/01/2003 4:13:40 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg (You're trying hard not to show it... but, baby... believe me... I know it.)
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To: Texas_Dawg; Can i say that here?
So here's the deal: we end the H1-B program completely and let anyone from India who would like to move here to do so. No restrictions on businesses, no federal government telling Americans who they can and can't hire, no federal H1-B programs. Would that be OK with you?

No, Texas_Fraud, that would not be okay. That would be tantamount to erasing our borders, and I know Globalist Boy (you) would love that, but we Murricans just won't permit it.

Lose the gov't intervention (H-1B) but we ain't erasing our borders.

429 posted on 10/01/2003 4:17:36 PM PDT by Lazamataz (I am the extended middle finger in the fist of life.)
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To: Texas_Dawg
Hey, that was almost civil:) Hell yeah, get the federal government out of the way. Bring all the Indians you want over here, let them compete with the Americans and if they blow them away, shame on the Americans. That's the point I've been hoping you would address.

A capitalist worker has the responsibility of remaining employable, but a capitalist employer realizes that his best asset is a productive worker who is able, not only to produce, but has the means to consume. Employing outside of the capitalist system means the employee is no longer a consumer.

432 posted on 10/01/2003 4:21:58 PM PDT by Can i say that here?
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To: Texas_Dawg
OK, fine... we both are against federal government intervention. So here's the deal: we end the H1-B program completely and let anyone from India who would like to move here to do so. No restrictions on businesses, no federal government telling Americans who they can and can't hire, no federal H1-B programs. Would that be OK with you?

There was never a restriction placed on businesses regarding who a business can hire. I contend that this is the one serious flaw in your entire argument. If a company wants to hire Indians or Chinese workers they are "free" to do so, all they have to do is go to India and China. Where was it ever written that America is required to import laborers for corporations? You are seriously confusing what the role of the Federal government is in supplying the labor pool for corporations.

467 posted on 10/01/2003 6:22:29 PM PDT by blueriver
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To: Texas_Dawg
OK, fine... we both are against federal government intervention. So here's the deal: we end the H1-B program completely and let anyone from India who would like to move here to do so. No restrictions on businesses, no federal government telling Americans who they can and can't hire, no federal H1-B programs. Would that be OK with you?

Some points here. 1st, everything does not revolve around the capitalist system. Capitalism is a means to an end. It is a system that works, we use it, because it works better than any alternative we have yet discovered. But there are other issues.

For example -- Is a Republican form of government based on the US Constitution of value? Worth fighting for? And if so, on what basis do we fund it? If the American workers wages plummit, then so do taxes. The multinationals will continue to avoid taxes, so on what basis is the government funded? How do we maintain a military for power projection without sufficient funding?

And -- do we want to maintain a 1st World quality of life? Or do we want to devolve into some kind of Mexico City/Bladerunner eco-future? It all costs money. 3rd world wages won't keep us out of the sewer.

And -- if the wages of the American worker sink in the direction of 3rd world wages, who is going to buy all the stuff produced? After all, the American worker = American consumer. So who is going to buy stuff once wages are trashed?

And -- the upper middle class Americans have kept lower class Americans afloat with their jobs as yard workers, housekeepers, Chuckie Cheese employees, etc. If the upper middle class wage gets eroded by 3rd world competition -- all those lower class workers go on the dole. Who pays for that? The government. Where does the government get the money? Taxes? From who?

See, its more than just about a narrow issue. There a LOT of factors here.

478 posted on 10/01/2003 8:06:58 PM PDT by dark_lord (The Statue of Liberty now holds a baseball bat and she's yelling 'You want a piece of me?')
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