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Should there be stricter gun control?
ajc.com ^ | 26 Sep 03 | Diane Glass, Shaunti Feldhahn

Posted on 09/28/2003 9:47:53 AM PDT by Ed Straker

Should there be stricter gun control?

Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.

DIANE GLASS

AJC columnist

On Sundays in Georgia, you can't buy a bottle of wine, but you can buy a gun at Wal-Mart. Just pass the background check and you're ready to lock and load. But don't be too quick to shoot the liberal; at least, not this one. Your head may need some work, but I have no desire to control your arms.

Stricter gun control is like Nancy Reagan's "just say no" campaign. Those who were never inclined to indulge are validated, those who already abuse continue to abuse. Do you really think stricter gun control is going to decrease homicides? The only people who won't be able to get guns will be law-abiding citizens who have no knowledge of underground networks. Those aren't the people committing crimes.

Rosie O'Donnell and a host of other vocal liberals fight for stricter gun control. I know you've heard this a time or two, but people kill people. Guns are inanimate objects. For anyone who watched "Bowling for Columbine," the award winning documentary by the uber-liberal Michael Moore, in between the chuckles, one message stood out loud and clear: gun homicides in the U.S. aren't a gun control problem; they're a citizen problem. Plenty of Canadians own guns, yet their homicide rate is significantly lower. Further proof is in the crime rate. It's going down, not up. So I ask -- where's the correlation of crime and gun ownership? Gun ownership continues to increase.

Gun control advocates must live in a city condo. Or, maybe they live in the suburban dream where gated communities and postage stamp lawns cloister them from the rest of civilization. Because they're forgetting about the rest of us who live in more rural, less restricted and secure communities where a guard isn't there as a watchful eye, where there is no neighborhood crime watch, where Bob and Jane aren't just down the street. For the rest of us, a gun is not a right, it's a necessity. It's true that a weapon can be used against you. So here's some good advice: if you're not willing to use it in self-defense, don't buy one!

There are far more automobile fatalities in the U.S. but we don't stop driving cars. Some drivers drink and drive, but we don't punish them by restricting the driving privileges of everyone else. We simply punish the violators. When we hear tragic stories about children getting hold of handguns, I understand the impulse to ban guns. But don't we also hear about children falling out of windows, out of cars, being beaten to death? That doesn't mean the problem is guns. The problem is us.

Don't kill the messenger.

Related:

http://www.wagc.com/index.html

SHAUNTI FELDHAHN

for ajc.com

Don't look now, Toto, but we're not in Kansas anymore. A liberal just made a conservative argument on gun control.

And now a conservative is about to make an argument that - ahem - may not quite sound like the NRA.

I agree that the problem is us. (Diane, you've got conservative potential yet!) But that does not excuse 'us' from doing something about that problem. In fact, the very knowledge of the dark side of human nature should make us watchful, careful and willing to both enact and enforce reasonable controls on deadly weapons -- although always with a careful eye to the Second Amendment.

I personally think that the drinking and driving analogy is a good one -- we punish the violators, not the good drivers. But we do place reasonable restrictions on the good drivers, out of caution. We institute an entire system to not only catch violators, but to prevent incidents. We insist that bars restrict alcohol service to drunk people at closing time. We institute roadblocks and mandatory license checks on notorious roadways on party-hearty Saturday nights. And, of course, we punish the violators. And even with all these precautions, too many people still die under the wheels of drunk drivers -- so it is clear that we need to do more.

Just as I believe those results have demonstrated the need for stricter measures to prevent drunk-driving incidents, I also believe we have seen the need for stricter measures to prevent gun violence. Not all states exercise the gun-control precautions that Georgia does.

We should never prohibit the right to bear arms, but it is a reasonable tradeoff to ask everyone to wait a few days and go through a criminal background check before exercising that right. It is a reasonable tradeoff to ask anyone who wants to bear AK-47 or Uzi sub-machine guns to go through a much more stringent system. It is not only reasonable but essential that we do a better job of policing the areas that criminals now slip through the cracks -- gun shows being a notorious example. And, of course, as the uber-conservatives say, we also have to do a better job of enforcing the laws we have.

Liberals (other than Diane) may wish the right to bear arms wasn't in the Bill of Rights, but it is -- right up there with freedom of speech and all those other rights that the liberal set vociferously defends. Our Founding Fathers knew that the problem is indeed us. There is a dark side to the hearts of men, and banning gun ownership will not solve that. As a gun-owner friend of mine says, "even if we took all the guns away, men would still find a way to form gangs and kill each other with sticks." The only true answer is to change the hearts of men. And no law, regulation or enforcement action is able to do that.

GUN CONTROL

Do you favor stricter gun control laws? 

Yes.2%41

 No. 98%2215 

Undecided0%0

Total Votes 2256


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: Georgia
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist
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To: Ed Straker
Gun control is using both hands.

"More" gun control means using both hands and a bench rest when you are shooting.

21 posted on 09/28/2003 3:30:26 PM PDT by Colt .45 (Cold War, Vietnam Era, Desert Storm Veteran - Pride in my Southern Ancestry!)
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To: elbucko
The first time the government could own a weapon a private citizen couldn't own, the Second Amendment became a fairly empty symbol.

The founding fathers didn't anticipate the development of weapons too expensive and too powerful for anyone but government to own.

I am sorta glad that wackos have trouble laying hands to a nuke, but the idea that armed citizens could overcome a tyrannical government themselves is a total joke now, extinct, gone, dead--as I think the Iraqis learned over more than a generation of misrule. (Do you really think the Iranians pulled off the overthrow of the Shaw without outside help? And that's the closest thing to an exception to this rule that I can come up with.)

Successful revolution is now the exclusive province of more heavily armed outside governments.
22 posted on 09/28/2003 3:38:16 PM PDT by ChemistCat (Ping ping ping ping ping ping PING ping pINg ping ping ping ping PING)
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To: FreedomCalls
No we don't need stricter gun control. What we need is less government and more liberty.

You get my vote. If you are anti-gun you should simply pack your bags and relocate to socialist Europe.
23 posted on 09/28/2003 3:49:27 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Ed Straker
well if there were background checks to buy that bottle of wine
she would be the first one bitch'n
as long as liberals oxes arent being gored
they sure are happy gore'ing everyone elses
24 posted on 09/28/2003 4:31:01 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Ed Straker
Let's ask the hero of the FReeper left, the right wing crazy-hating A. Schwarzenegger:

"'I'm for gun control. I'm a peace-loving guy.' - Time magazine cover story Aug 18, 2003. When interviewed on the issues by Sean Hannity on August 27th, Schwarzenegger admitted that he is for gun control. He said he supported both the Brady Bill and the ban on so-called 'assault weapons.' He said 'also I would like to close the loophole of the gun shows.' When asked by the Sacramento Bee to detail his positions on gun issues (scroll down), Arnold stated that he supports legislation to ban .50-caliber rifles, force gun buyers to pass a state-defined test in order to purchase a handgun, and require load indicators or magazine safety disconnects on new semiauto handguns.

25 posted on 09/28/2003 4:35:26 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
Who else was born in Austria? Did his first name also start with an A and a firm believer in gun control?
26 posted on 09/28/2003 4:46:46 PM PDT by Ches
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To: Ed Straker
It is a reasonable tradeoff to ask anyone who wants to bear AK-47 or Uzi sub-machine guns to go through a much more stringent system.

Ignorance....
Ever hear of a Class III????

27 posted on 09/28/2003 4:49:27 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan (A vote for McClintock is a vote for Kyle Reese...and a vote against Cruz.)
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To: Ed Straker
We don't want to go "down under" from gun control.

From News.com.au Sept. 21 2003 (Australia): Three charged over weapons cache

THREE men have been charged with firearms offences after a cache of rifles, handguns and silencers was discovered at several addresses in Perth.

Police said today that during a vehicle stop on Sunday, they discovered a loaded .22 calibre rifle, a silencer and a quantity of ammunition.

During subsequent searches of three addressees, detectives located 17 rifles, eight handguns, three silencers. . . More than 2,000 rounds of ammunition were also confiscated.

Firearms prohibitions threaten everyone's security.
28 posted on 09/28/2003 6:14:04 PM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: Kevin Curry
He said 'also I would like to close the loophole of the gun shows.'

Extreme Cluelessness Alert. California doesn't have a so-called gun-show-loophole. All sales must go through a licensed dealer and have had to for two to three years. (Sorry, I don't remember exactly what year it was passed.)

That kind of thing can happen when you don't check to be sure that HCI's talking points really do apply to the particular state you're talking about. Sarah should have crossed that one off when she sent Arnold his "reasonable" gun control positions list.

29 posted on 09/28/2003 6:30:52 PM PDT by Bob (http://www.TomMcClintock.com)
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To: ChemistCat
...but the idea that armed citizens could overcome a tyrannical government themselves is a total joke now, extinct, gone, dead--

Oh really. I think your example is out of context with the US culture and shows some ignorance about the concept of the "Citizen Soldier", both in and out of uniform and in and out of active duty. I've been all three and I was an officer around the type of weapon you are; " sorta glad that wackos have trouble laying hands to a nuke,". I can tell you for a fact, that the worst enemy the United States Army fears the most, is the armed US citizenry that becomes organized. You can't "nuke" your homeland, so WMD's become useless for domestic purposes. Soldiers of past conflicts, distant and recent, are always among the civil population ready to train the recruits of a homeland guerrilla army, if need be. All pilots of military aircraft, fast and small, big and slow, fear small arms fire and rightly so..

BTW, When I went into the Army, I swore to protect the Constitution. When I received my bars, I swore, again, to protect the Constitution. I don't remember ever having recanted that pledge. There are hundreds of thousands of us.

As for the argument between the issue of small arms and artillery, aircraft and nuclear weapons in the sense of a domestic struggle, I find the formers inclusion into discussions of the 2nd. Amendment ludicrous, and the laters, a point so moot that it's not worth an intelligent discussion.

30 posted on 09/28/2003 6:40:56 PM PDT by elbucko (MOLON LABE!)
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To: elbucko
So you intelligently discussed it...why?

Just because we don't happen to have a tyrannical government at the moment doesn't mean it can't happen.

Talk to your Waco survivors or the Gonzalez family in Miami. They might not agree with either of us.
31 posted on 09/28/2003 6:42:19 PM PDT by ChemistCat (Ping ping ping ping ping ping PING ping pINg ping ping ping ping PING)
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To: ChemistCat
The first time the government could own a weapon a private citizen couldn't own, the Second Amendment became a fairly empty symbol.

70 million gun owners against a military of less than a million ..... they'd never stand a chance if the government pushed it to that.

32 posted on 09/28/2003 6:57:24 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Islam : totalitarian political ideology / meme cloaked under the cover of religion)
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To: Centurion2000
I don't see all tyranny as being some kind of Armageddon in which everyone chooses sides and everyone is involved.

Tyranny breaks out against households, against individuals, against churches, against relatively weaker minorities. Hitler didn't decide to kill all the Catholics. He took on the Jews. Reno didn't take on Castro--she took on the weaker, easier target. (Booting Castro could have freed a lot more than one child.)

See the Jason Parker saga in Utah if you want another ongoing example. What good are our Second Amendment "rights" when they take us on one family at a time? Whether or not the kid should have chemotherapy, the state is definitely tyrannizing that family.

33 posted on 09/28/2003 7:04:39 PM PDT by ChemistCat (Ping ping ping ping ping ping PING ping pINg ping ping ping ping PING)
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To: Ed Straker
We institute roadblocks and mandatory license checks on notorious roadways on party-hearty Saturday nights.

Which are most likely violation of the 4th amendment. But nobody pays much attention to that part of the old rag than they do the second amendment.

34 posted on 09/28/2003 8:58:51 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Ed Straker
While "stricter" isn't exactly the adjective I'd use, we do need more and better gun control. Heck I couldn't put my .45 ACP rounds where I wanted them this afternoon, except when I switched to the full size 1911A1.

Seriously the only "gun control" we need is:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

If strictly enforced, that should keep most of the really bad guns, those in the hands of jack booted thugs feeding at the tax trough, in line. Just as the Founders intended that they be.

35 posted on 09/28/2003 9:03:56 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: elbucko
BTW, When I went into the Army, I swore to protect the Constitution. When I received my bars, I swore, again, to protect the Constitution. I don't remember ever having recanted that pledge. There are hundreds of thousands of us.

Millions, mi hermano en armas, not mere hundreds of thousands. I swore that oath when I went into ROTC, again when I got my bars, again when I transferred from the Reserve to the Guard. I may have done it a couple more times in writing, but I don't recall for sure. None of those times came with an expiration date. Even my retirement certificute says nothing about a release from the duty to "support and defend... against all enemies, foreign and domestic".

36 posted on 09/28/2003 9:14:01 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: ChemistCat
Successful revolution is now the exclusive province of more heavily armed outside governments.

I'm sure the British thought much the same in the late 18th century. You just go right on thinking that and everything will be just fine... NOT!

37 posted on 09/28/2003 9:16:18 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: ChemistCat
Successful revolution is now the exclusive province of more heavily armed outside governments.

Here's a liberal's liberal (well an old style one anyway) who disagrees with you.

Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. ... The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be possible. -- Hubert H Humprey, United States Senator (D-Minnesota) 1960

If the balloo n should ever go up in a domestic armed struggle, it won't be armed solidiers who will be the target of an aroused populace, it will be the politicians and the bureaucrats, and they are neither well armed nor large in numbers.

38 posted on 09/28/2003 9:37:18 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: El Gato
I think that if you want to refute an argument I'm making about 'now' and the weapons of today, you might want to come up with a slightly more contemporary counter-example. :-) 18th century!

And we did have substantial help from more heavily armed outside governments in THAT war, too.
39 posted on 09/28/2003 9:54:37 PM PDT by ChemistCat (Ping ping ping ping ping ping PING ping pINg ping ping ping ping PING)
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To: Ed Straker
We insist that bars restrict alcohol service to drunk people at closing time.

She's got a point; that's why I only go to bars in the morning.

40 posted on 09/28/2003 10:05:46 PM PDT by Old Professer
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