Posted on 09/27/2003 12:01:18 PM PDT by Action-America
This is why the school administration hates me so much and why my classes are in such high demand. Kids talk to the other younger kids every year and tell them who will give it "straight" and who's shovels the B$.
You didn't really read what I wrote. I set my own "income" to whatever I want, and could easily have put myself in the top 0.1% for all the years I was making $10k on average. I've been risking my millions for many, many years. Right now I am heavily invested in new businesses, and $20-50k of additional capital could make or break them over the last couple years and so I have marshalled my resources to an extreme to insure their survival. I outgrew your Hollywood conception of how I should use my money years ago -- its a phase -- and most wealthy people mature rather quickly, because they wouldn't have become wealthy in the first place if they didn't. There are a number of very wealthy people in my extended family, all self-made and bootstrapped, and none of them do what you do even though many have incomes in the tens of millions of dollars a year. And I know dozens of business people who are extremely wealthy that I deal with on a day-to-day basis, and none of them do what you are talking about either. (Family tradition: money is NEVER inherited, lent, or given to less fortunate family or relatives. Everyone earns their own dime and pays their own way through the world, even the kids. A lot of foundations and non-profit organizations have made a mint off my relatives kicking the bucket. Still, every generation produces a collection of wealthy individuals that started from absolutely nothing.)
If my basic living expenses exceeded $100k, it would mark me as a dumb-ass; I did that for about a year a long time ago and quickly realized how remarkably pointless it was. I simply don't have much in the way of living expenses even though I have lots of assets. One can have a gorgeous mountaintop home, fancy cars, etc and live on less than $20k/year very easily unless you are financially incompetent. How the hell would I spend $100k now? I don't have time to cruise the world for months at a time -- I have business to take care of -- but I still manage to spend a few weeks here and there traveling where I choose to. Managing that much money and business is a full-time job if you want to do it right and maximize it. It is hard to blow that much money on food and wine unless that is all you spend your time on, and even then, my wine cellar has some of the rarest old bottlings in the world and my cooking skills are on par with many of the finer restaurants in the world, so I can eat very well (and I don't have time for good restaurants most of the time anyway -- I'm working).
My point being that most of the people who actually require extravagant incomes to live either 1) have nothing better to do with their time anyway, 2) have only income and no real wealth, or 3) are pretty poor at financial management. My biggest single expense is gas for my gas guzzler, which is what I typically drive. On an income of $40k/year I wouldn't even have to tighten my belt, because that is essentially all spending money.
I know a lot of extremely wealthy people. While some have some fairly extravagant toys, none lead the odd Hollywood lifestyle that you are imagining because they all have to earn their money. I don't think the lifestyle is typically what you think it is.
Here is the news article about Clinton buying a home in Ireland. Note 1/2 way down the article who else is buying in the the same complex.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/07/11/nclin11.xml
Clinton tees up his dream flat in Ireland
By Thomas Harding, Ireland Correspondent
(Filed: 11/07/2003)
Bill Clinton yesterday united his two loves, Ireland and golf, by buying a two-bedroom apartment that overlooks a Ryder Cup venue.
The property comes with full membership for two to the prestigious Kildare Hotel and Country Club - better known as the K Club - 30 miles south-west of Dublin where an 18-hole round costs £190 and first year membership is £60,000.
The former American president, who has called Ireland his second home, struck a deal with an estate agent friend for an £850,000 flat while playing golf in Northern Ireland last weekend.
It is thought to be the first time a former president has bought a property outside the American continent.
Mr Clinton, 56, bought flat No 702, The Village, "unseen" through his friend Arthur French. Appropriately the deal was struck between holes at Royal County Down golf course.
Mr French's son, John Bosco French, said: "He was playing with my father. He'd been over and back a bit lately and he was talking about buying a base here and last Sunday evening he decided on the K Club."
The deal is with solicitors and Mr Clinton should be given the apartment keys later in the summer.
His purchase was perhaps swayed by the expansive estate agent description of "an exceptional proposition to any discerning investor" that offers "seclusion and tranquillity from the outside world".
A chance to buy one of the 60 apartments "provides a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reside in a prestigious country estate". However, at 1,350 sq ft the apartment is not on a grand scale.
The complex, where prices range from about £660,000 to £1 million, overlooks a courtyard of fountains and landscaped gardens giving it "an exclusivity that is simply unrivalled".
Mr Clinton will be able to play on both 18-hole courses at the club where America's top golfers are to take on Europe in the biennial Ryder Cup in 2006.
But at the clubhouse there was a curt "no comment" on the news of Mr Clinton's purchase.
The course, recognised as one of Europe's finest, was designed by Arnold Palmer. It hosted the European Open last week.
The club is next to the small village of Straffan where it is not uncommon to see the golfers Tiger Woods and Mark O'Meara, the Formula One team boss Eddie Jordan and the pop singer Ronan Keating.
George Bush senior, whom Mr Clinton defeated in the 1994 presidential election, has been known to fish in the area.
Mr Clinton's neighbours will be from Ireland's elite including Michael Smurfit, one of the richest men in Ireland; JP McManus and John Magnier, the racing tycoons and part-owners of Manchester United; and Tom Coughlan, the Wal-Mart chief executive.
A fortnight ago the King of Malaysia viewed an adjoining property and 12 apartments are still for sale.
The unfurnished apartment comes with a combined living and dining room, kitchen and two bathrooms.
It is unclear what provision would be made for Secret Service agents but The Village is hidden by "ancient trees and a 17th century walled garden". On leaving office Mr Clinton had legal bills totalling millions of dollars over the Whitewater, Monica Lewinsky and other affairs. However, he is said to command as much as $1 million for an after-dinner speech.
Like previous occupants of the White House, Mr Clinton recognised the electoral benefits of tracing his Irish roots - in his case to Roslea, Co Fermanagh.
The Irish appear to have taken Mr Clinton to their hearts. A statue in Ballybunion, Co Kerry, was erected in his honour after he played a couple of rounds. An estimated 100,000 people turned out to welcome him when he arrived in Belfast in 1995.
Mr Clinton, who named his new Labrador "Seamus" following the death of "Buddy", is reportedly preparing to learn the Irish language after he was presented with a self-teaching pack on a visit to Londonderry last weekend.
He won respect in most of Northern Ireland for using his office to urge all sides to sign the Good Friday Agreement in 1998.
While no statues have been erected in Ulster, a library, hotel suite and cafe on the republican Falls Road have been named in Mr Clinton's honour.
The question we should ask is, who the hell do the IRS think they are to take other people's money?
Exactly. Although I wish successful people didn't give their money to their liberal kids, it is their responsibility, not the government's. Your money is your money and you can dispose of it however you wish.
It is why interest in the Republican Party is waning with conservatives and we feel we need a new third party. A party that will resonate with the silent majority who will vote if they know they are not voting for the lesser of two evils.
Luckily, the DemocRAT Party is collapsing, so the new party could easily become the second one--and then, if the Pubs continue to be so spineless, the first one.
We live in exciting times, don't we!
And once they start fighting, they are bound to win, because the leftists cannot survive on their own.
But, I won't ask you to take my word for it. In fact, many FReepers have probably already noticed the absurd posts that I am talking about.
All that I suggest is that everyone pay close attention to some of the patently absurd and contradictory "claims" that tortoise has made in recent posts. Then, I invite you to make your own judgment about whether or not he is trying to blow smoke up our collective knickers.
It's probably a safe bet that, although only some of those who post here on FR may be among the upper echelons of income earners, most of us do, at least know a few very wealthy people. It may be a boss, an distant uncle, an old high school or college classmate or a parishioner. But, most of us know at least one or two very wealthy people, even if we seldom see or associate with them.
Now, not all wealthy people are alike. But, I ask you to simply use your own experience with those wealthy people that you do know and then consider the things that tortoise "claims" and make your own decision.
As for me, for personal reasons, I have never claimed in these pages, to be either wealthy or of any other financial status for that matter, unlike tortoise, who seems to want to impress us with his "claimed" means. I have however, made it clear that, as part of my investments, I do deal with some very wealthy people, both in the US and abroad, on a daily basis. Maybe the wealthy people that you know are different and have a different life style, but judging, strictly based upon the wealthy people that I know, tortoise is either blowing serious smoke up our knickers or he is in serious need of psychological help.
Here are some of his "claims" from earlier posts in this thread. See if you don't find them to be as incredulous and comical as do I.
"Up until three years ago, I was definitely filing in the top 1% for several years because I had a lot of profit to bleed."
My first thought at reading that was, "Great. Congratulations.", until I read what follows.
"When the economy went south, I sealed the hatches and focused on long-term business investments rather than letting the government rape me for my seed corn during this dry spell. As a consequence, I have averaged $10k gross income for the last three years, which is just enough to cover my basic living expenses."
Yeah, Right! Someone who was in the top earning 1% voluntarily puts himself well below the poverty line to save his "seed corn". According to the Department of Health and Human Services, in 2003, a family of two could not meet basic needs on less than $12,120 a year. A family of three require $15,260 and a family of four require $18,400 and that's just "basic" needs. Of course those numbers are a lot higher in the major cities, Alaska and Hawaii. Those numbers also don't include automobile expenses, like gas, oil, insurance and repairs, since folks at the poverty line almost exclusively walk or use public transportation. They also live in very small apartments, where the rent is probably less than most people spend to heat and cool a decent sized house, not to mention homeowners insurance and other homeowner costs. In short, I have trouble imagining how a person who has enjoyed the comforts that even moderate wealth brings, could get by on less than $50-75k per year.
"I set my own "income" to whatever I want, and could easily have put myself in the top 0.1% for all the years I was making $10k on average."
Now it's really getting rich (pun intended). To be in that top 0.1%, our bragger would have been able to earn at least $1.3 million a year. And, he wants us to believe that, with that kind of cash flow, he purposely cut his personal expenses to well below the poverty line? In fact, I find it incredulous that a person with that kind of cash flow could reduce his expenses that much, even if he wanted to.
"I've been risking my millions for many, many years."
There he goes bragging again. Notice the plural, "millions."
"Right now I am heavily invested in new businesses, and $20-50k of additional capital could make or break them"
Not only do I not know of, but I have never heard of any person with the kind of cash flow that tortoise "claims" to control, who would waste his valuable time investing in companies so small that $20-50k would make a difference. That makes as much sense as a person who makes $50k a year having $100 in each of 25 checking accounts, instead of consolidating that money in two or three accounts for specific purposes. Just the accounting overhead would be phenomenal.
If, as tortoise "claims", he was in the top 1% of income earners for several years and could have recognized enough income to have been in the top 0.1% of income earners for the last few years, then that should place his total net worth conservatively, in excess of $6 million. Can you imagine any true millionaire with that much money, wasting his valuable time on dozens of tiny investments, when he could just as easily put a million or two into each of 4 or 5 or even 10 major investments that he could easily monitor? Diversity in your portfolio is one thing, but what tortoise "claims" is ridiculous. It's a matter of scale. Think about it...
"There are a number of very wealthy people in my extended family, all self-made and bootstrapped,... (Family tradition: money is NEVER inherited, lent, or given to less fortunate family or relatives. Everyone earns their own dime and pays their own way through the world, even the kids. A lot of foundations and non-profit organizations have made a mint off my relatives kicking the bucket. Still, every generation produces a collection of wealthy individuals that started from absolutely nothing.)"
This is the real kicker. With most of the world working hard to leave their children more than they started with and all of the liberals who complain about dynasties and want to impose huge inheritance taxes to punish the family dynasties that keep getting larger with every passing generation, don't you find the thought that tortoise "claims" that nobody in his family passes on their inheritance to their children just a little bit absurd?
Maybe I'm all wet. Maybe everything that tortoise "claims" is exactly as he portrays it. But, it all just seems to incredible or should I say, un-credible. But then, that's just my opinion. All that I suggest is that you look at the facts and make up your own mind and from now on, when you see his screen name on a post, give him all the respect that you think he deserves.
You are a moron, or at least a bit dense. My cost of living is so low because I own everything I have (all purchased during high income years), and I don't buy things that have excessive maintenance costs. The only cars I buy are my trucks and I pay for those in full; the high-priced luxury sedans are leased and therefore easy to dispose of (I don't have one currently). The climate where I live requires little in the way of either heating or cooling. I don't pay much in the way of utilities at all, actually. Property taxes are a bit of an expense, but my properties were carefully structured such that I pay less for thousands of acres than most people do for their non-descript suburban homes. Cost of food is negligible, and even though I do grow/raise/fish/hunt some of it, I don't think I'm actually saving much money doing so. I haven't bought wine in years, but I have a fairly extensive cellar and some of the bottles need to be opened as some run out of shelf life anyway.
So what the hell am I supposed to be spending money on? I already have nice quality stuff and I do the things I want to do. I lead a much nicer life at $10k than the wage slaves at $75k, but the $10k is also an arbitrary figure (actually, it will be about $25k this year) and comes from miscellaneous incidental income (e.g. royalties, interest, etc).
I make a lot of long-term investments (many relatively non-liquid) and put a lot of money in startup companies, which I actively manage. A lot of the "maintenance" money (e.g. to make payroll in a tight month) I've invested came from the cash reserves I keep in my checking accounts i.e. the cash buffer that I would normally live on. Rather than taking a hit by liquidating some long-term investments, I've limited my overall exposure by reducing spending on frivolous projects and using my cash reserves as emergency capital for some of my business investments to weather the slow economy. Yes, its been tight, but it hasn't affected my lifestyle nearly as much as you think it has and I will profit mightily on the upside of the economy, all with less tax exposure.
Your attitude explains a lot as to why some people manage to accumulate wealth and others do not. I manage to accumulate wealth by having fiscal foresight and discipline. What you are suggesting I "ought" to be doing is foolish.
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