Bitter Russian Church wants peace with Rome

gateway2russia.com ^ | 27 September 2003 16:13 | gazeta.ru

[Destro]

27 September 2003 16:13

Bitter Russian Church wants peace with Rome

The Russian Orthodox Church ardently desires reconciliation with Roman Catholics to end a 1,000-year rift, even if it is still bitter about perceived insults in recent years, a high official said on Saturday. "Christian unity is important to defend our common values amid the secularisation of society," the Moscow Patriarchate's Secretary for External Relations told Reuters in an interview. "In Catholics we see brethren and share a heritage of sacred tradition. The things which divide us are not so important in comparison," said Archpriest Nikolai Balashov.

Balashov is part of Patriarch Alexiy's delegation now visiting Estonia, an ex-Soviet Baltic state with a big Russian minority which is due to join the European Union next May. President Vladimir Putin called last week for the Orthodox to improve their ties with the Vatican in light of Russia's new European integration. Putin said he personally was keen to receive the pope in Moscow. Orthodox and Catholics split in 1054 when the Roman Pontiff and the Patriarch of Constantinople condemned each other over issues of theology and politics. Relations have been tense ever since, although mutual 'excommunications' were lifted in 1965.

Pope John Paul has made no secret of his desire to reunite the Churches, but relations have instead soured as Orthodox leaders accuse the Vatican of trying to steal their flock and Catholics decry Moscow's lingering 'Soviet mentality'. "We feel a deep sense of betrayal," said Balashov. "Because in Soviet times, we knew Christians on the other side of the Iron Curtain were our friends and were praying for us. But then the attitude changed and we became like competitors in Russia."

The issues that most irritate ties are the expansion of Catholic activity in traditional Orthodox areas and the cells of Eastern Christians especially in Ukraine who have broken with Moscow and declared fidelity to the pope. Balashov said the problem was not so much the fact of these developments over the past 15 years as the manner in which they were carried out that angered Moscow. He said it was only natural that Roman Catholic priests be allowed to care for the minority of Catholics living in Russia, and perhaps also assist the Orthodox Church to regain full strength after 70 years of communist persecution.

It was also normal that the Eastern Catholic Church in Ukraine, which was annihilated at the request of Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, would revive after the Soviet Union collapsed. Instead they saw "an invasion of well educated Catholic missionaries" who seemed to be competing with instead of helping the Orthodox, while Ukraine erupted in uncivilised feuds over the division of church property. "There has to be mutual respect," Balashov said, noting that until there was, the Moscow patriarch would not meet with the pope. "There is no sense simply to meet before cameras and pretend we have no problems," he said.

[http://gazeta.ru/]

[Bushbacker]

I pray this happens. I want to see the church become universal again

__Amen! There is no legitimate
basis for modern day churches
to honor splits in Christendom
going back 1000s of years.

[Cicero]

Well, the KGB is still keeping its secrets, so who can be absolutely certain.

What's more interesting to me is that when you have a double agent, part KGB operative and part bishop, which of the two will prevail? The KGB undermines the Church, and by its very essence Christianity undermines the KGB.

Still, it's awkward if it involves informing on people in order to survive. The end doesn't always justify the means.

[Destro]

Kind of reminds me of the Roman Pope that sacrificed to the Emperor.

[fqued]

you wrote Kind of reminds me of the Roman Pope that sacrificed to the Emperor.


Uhhh...which one, when, source??? I know a heck of a lot of history and this is completely new to me.

[Destro]

The Liber Pontificalis, basing itself on the Acts of St Marcellinus, the text of which is lost, relates that during Diocletian’s persecution Marcellinus was called upon to sacrifice, and offered incense to idols, but that, repenting shortly afterwards, he confessed the faith of Christ and suffered martyrdom with several companions. Other documents speak of his defection, and it is probably this lapse that explains the silence of the ancient liturgical calendars.

[fqued]

"St. Augustine wrote that since no proof of apostasy was offered, the charge should be rejected." (-Enc. Brit.)

I will go with St. Augustine rather than the Liber Pontificalis citing a lost book.

[Destro]

That is not proper historical analysis. St. Augustine is a problematic source (biases) as granted most of the sources are. A historian has to acknowledge that based on the written accounts (there are multiples) it may or may not have happened but more sources than not say it did happen.

[fqued]

You wrote in part: "A historian has to acknowledge that based on the written accounts (there are multiples) it may or may not have happened. . . .

without a doubt, that is true. My problem is (and I am not a Catholic), that many people will go to great lengths to disparage the Roman Catholic Church, the Papacy, etc.

Look back at your first post on this subject. There was no acknowledgment that the story was based on a lost manuscript and that the Great (if not the Greatest) Doctor of the early church did not accept it. You presented it as if it were undisputably true, which it is not.

Secondly, in that first post, you never said (granting for the sake of this point that the story is true), that that "pope" had repented--a very important issue.

[Destro]

St. Augustine was a flawed scholar. He could not read in Greek (a big deal back then) but he did manage to win some prizes in Latin (I think in rhetoric? I don't remember) and was an extreme Manichean in his youth. Being a "doctor" of the Church does not make one an objective historian.

Glad to have added to your history knowledge.

[Destro]

There was no acknowledgment that the story was based on a lost manuscript

You misread it. The Liber Pontificalis is based on a lost document but it is not the sole source for this. Earlier sources for this do in fact exist.

[fqued]

Glad to have added to your history knowledge.

You are welcome. By the way, do you read, or have you studied, Latin, Greek, or Hebrew?? Have you read Augustine, or are you quoting what some others may have said about him?

[Domestic Church]

"What's more interesting to me is that when you have a double agent, part KGB operative and part bishop, which of the two will prevail?"

Many think the Roman Catholic Church was infiltrated by communist agents as well so the question could be raised on western terra firma. It is a good question on both accounts and perhaps the answer lies in healing the schism.

[Destro]

I can read and write in Greek. I have read translations of St. Augustine-or to be more honest-analysis and biographies of him. I could never work through the Eternal City--boring by far. Since I am not being paid for it at this time I do not chose to read it.

[Destro]

Are you talking about the Communist inspired liberation theology?

[BlackVeil]

The KGB surveillance of the Russian Orthodox church was at the higher levels, and it is important to note that ordinary clergy, women religious, and the remnants of the monastics who still existed, were not directly affected.

In Russia, it was something of a tradition that the govt tried to keep control of the church hierarchy by making appointments of people who can only be described as stooges - this went on for centuries and I suppose it still does. The Orthodox just put up with it as they see it as one of the painful, inevitable, things about this world. It does not really affect the practice of their faith, which is based around the sacraments. The stooges just take up their high positions, and are rather well off, and have patronage of lucrative postions. Everyone else has to just be content with being a Christian.

[fqued]

I can read and write in Greek.

Very cool. I studied Greek (homeric, attic, and koine), Latin, and Hebrew. Unfortunately, I have done nothing in the languages for the past 11 years. I translated much of the Old Testament and the New Testament, and used to do pretty good exegesis based on the original languages, but my language skills are very rusty now.

[Destro]

I think maybe the knowledge that "stooges" (our accomidationists as I like to call them) were appointed as bishops may have been stretched to mean "spies" or "informants" beyond what may have been the case.

[Destro]

as are mine.

[Kenny Bunk]

Thank you for a most insightful post and reply. Part of my family is Russian Orthodox, one actually in Holy Orders here in the US.

The US branch of the Church hopes to play an increasingly important role in support of the rebuilding the Church in Russia. I pray it works.

regards, KB

[Domestic Church]

That's a part of the argument for those wondering about the possibilty of such an infiltration. Here's an old thread on the topic with great links in the commentary:

http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3b555c262d74.htm