California recall: Does one man hold key? [McClintock]

Christian Science Monitor ^ | 9-25 | Christian Science Monitor

[FairOpinion]

For Roger to say after today"s chat with Tom that "My conclusion is, I made the right decision endorsing Arnold," it meant a LOT. He said "It's Tom's ATTITUDE that makes him a loser, and it's Arnold's ATTITUDE that makes him a winner."

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Exaclty. Character counts. You may have the right spin on the issues, but if all you do is pontificate about them, you belong in a think tank, not in a leadership position.

[ProtectorOfTwo]

"Keeping cruz bustamante from becoming California's next governor is what's best for both. Tom staying in and helping elect cruz doesn't help either."

Playing into the fictional problems posed by Tom's presence are what is best for liberals and I must say this message board is alive with this stuff. I cannot tell you how many people I know (and I have friends that are not lockstep with me...) that are waiting becuase they are too scared to vote for McClintock becuase we might "elect Busty". If the people of California are torn between a "consistent" conservative like Tom McClintock, and a "claimed" conservative like Arnold, then maybe "Tough Love" is in order.

Here's to hoping for 2006 when people might get their heads out of their collcetive a%%es after 3 years of "tough love" becuase true, uncompromising conservatives who vote for Tom are not the problem. The negotiators and the moderates within the "Party" are however...

[Spiff]

"Conservatives were wary of Schwarzenegger even before Tax 'em and Kill 'em Buffett joined the campaign. Schwarzenegger claims to be a fiscal conservative and a liberal on social issues. Historically, that means: "liberal."" - Ann Coulter

"Here me now and believe me later, my friends: all these conservative orgasms over Arnold Schwarzenegger are – like the 'Gorbasms' liberals experienced over Mikhail Sergeevich Gorbachev – fake. I know that 'R' next to Schwarzenegger's name excites the White House, but his own words prove he's not a conservative. I call this 'The Hollywood Syndrome,' and it happens every time some actor-type says anything even remotely conservative. I'm not trying to cold shower anybody here, but don't look to anyone in Hollywood to validate your political ideas." - Rush Limbaugh

Just what are those views that prove that Arnold is a liberal? Here they are again:

• Pro Gun Control

  "I'm for gun control. I'm a peace-loving guy." - Time magazine cover story Aug 18, 2003. When interviewed on the issues by Sean Hannity on August 27th, Schwarzenegger admitted that he is for gun control. He said he supported both the Brady Bill and the ban on so-called "assault weapons." He said "also I would like to close the loophole of the gun shows." When asked by the Sacramento Bee to detail his positions on gun issues (scroll down), Arnold stated that he supports legislation to ban .50-caliber rifles, force gun buyers to pass a state-defined test in order to purchase a handgun, and require load indicators or magazine safety disconnects on new semiauto handguns.

• Pro Abortion

  Schwarzenegger appeared on FoxNews' "Bill O'Reilly" program in May 2001 and said he disagreed with President Bush's pro-life position. "I'm for choice," Schwarzenegger said on the program. "The women should have the choice. The women should decide what they want to do with their bodies. I'm all for that." When interviewed on the issues by Sean Hannity on August 27th, Schwarzenegger admitted again that he is "pro-choice".

• Pro Gay Agenda

  From Cosmopolitan magazine, "I have no sexual standards in my head that say this is good or this is bad. Homosexual-that only means to me that he enjoys sex with a man and I enjoy sex with a woman. It's all legitimate to me." He also supports gay adoption, despite the fact that both conservative Republicans and moderate Democrats voted by a 61 percent margin for Proposition 22, the Defense of Marriage Initiative, which defined marriage as that between a man and a woman. Newsmax, 28 July 2003 When interviewed on the issues by Sean Hannity on August 27th, Schwarzenegger admitted that he is for legalized "domestic partnerships" which would give gay couples the same benefits as marriage.

• Pro Big Government Programs

  Regarding the passage of Proposition 49, a big government social scheme providing funds for after school programs: "Every California child deserves access to a proven, quality, life-changing afterschool program, and now they will have it. My hope is that, as goes California, so goes the rest of our nation." When interviewed on the issues by Sean Hannity on August 27th, Schwarzenegger said that he believes that social programs should be focused on children. He said, "I think the important thing, again, is that we work on education and really make sure that the kids have the first run at our treasury." In the same interview with Hannity, Schwarzenegger said that he supports big government programs to buy back leases as a measure to protect the environment. He said, "I think that our state government and our federal government should negotiate to buy back the leases [from the oil companies.]"

• Pro Environmentalist Agenda

  When a reporter asked him in early August to detail his positions on the environment, he said "I will fight for the environment. Nothing to worry about." When interviewed on the issues by Sean Hannity on August 27th, Schwarzenegger said he did not support offshore oil drilling. He said, "No, absolutely not. I think that we should stop the oil drilling and I think that our state government and our federal government should negotiate to buy back the leases [from the oil companies.]"

• Pro Clinton/Anti Impeachment

  In 1999 Schwarzenegger told George magazine of his bitterness about the frenzy over Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton and the waste of time and energy it represented. "That was another thing I will never forgive the Republican party for," he said. "I was ashamed to call myself a Republican during that period."

• Soft on Illegal Immigration

  In a radio interview with KABC radio host Larry Elder on August 27th, Schwarzenegger said that allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the United States is "the right thing to do." Last year, while campaigning for his Prop. 49 after-school programs initiative, Schwarzenegger...declared in answer to a question from the audience: "I would never stand in the way of any child going to school, whether he or she is here legally or illegally, it does not matter." - Sacramento Bee, 24 August.

A liberal by any other name is still a liberal. A Republican who does not believe in Republican values is still a RINO. You can paint a liberal in moderate colors, put an (R) after his name, but he's still a liberal.

Oh, Arnold may not be quite as liberal as the liberal extremists you saw on stage with him last night, but nevertheless he holds a majority of liberal positions and is therefore a liberal.

I know you and others don't like the fact that he is a liberal. But, he is.

He's certainly no conservative. That argument died here log ago after I and other posters started posting his very unconservative views. Now the prevailing argument here is that Arnold is a "moderate" or "centrist" or not as liberal as the other liberals. Well, actually the prevailing argument is "McClintock is unelectable", but if you get an Arniebot to go further than that (which is rare) he'll argume the former points as if they are even laudable.

[BunnySlippers]

... and Newt Gingrich, and Ann Coulter, and George Schultz, and Milton Friedman and on and on ....

ONLY YOU and other TomBots think that you keepers of the flame. but you're not. You are not the arbitor of conservatism. Get used to it.

[EternalVigilance]

You are obviously naive about the issues relevant to the restoration and protection of our right to keep and bear arm--if you believe what you just wrote.

[FairOpinion]

"[Socialism] "

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Why don't you read what Arnold said?

From Arnold's speech at the Republican Convention:


What I saw in Austria made me anti-communist. What I saw in California made me a free-enterprise, fiscally conservative Republican. Republican principles are what built California into the Golden State.

I came to America 35 years ago as an immigrant. By working playing by the rules, my immigrant dreams came true. I want other peoplhard and e to have the same chances, the same opportunities. I am a Republican because of what Ronald Reagan said – government bureaucrats can never substitute for millions of individuals working night and day to make their dreams come true.

That's what being a Republican means.

Let me tell you what being a conservative means to me.

I'm a conservative because I believe communism is evil and free enterprise is good.

I'm a conservative because Milton Friedman is right and Karl Marx was wrong.

I'm a conservative because I believe the government serves the people; the people don't serve the government.

I'm a conservative because I believe in balanced budgets, not budget deficits.

I'm a conservative because I believe the money that people earn is their money – not the government’s money.

And when you look at this driver's license outrage, I'm a conservative because I believe in the rule of law not in political pandering.

The driver's license issue is not about race; it's about law.

It's about a fair playing field. It's about living by the rules.

That's why people come to this country – because our laws mean something.

As governor, I promise you – our laws will mean something.

http://www.joinarnold.com/en/press/pressdetail.php?id=113

[fqued]

in reply to: What do you mean? actually he is pro-capitalist. Give us th evidence that he is pro-socialist.

you wrote: Ever hear of afterschool babysitting?

That is not pro-socialist. At its very paranoic worst, that could be considered social engineering, but it is not SOCIALIST!

Words have meanings. If you mean to imply that Arny wants the government to be involved in social concerns that you don't want the government involved in, say that. But the word "socialist" means that the government controls the means of production. Admittedly the meaning has enlarged enough to include a government that taxes the people at a confiscatory rate and then controls the economy almost totally; but that is clearly outside what Arny wants.

Again, you don't have to like or agree with Arny ( I don't agree with him), but at least BE FAIR.

[Tamzee]

I said the Clintons are desperate to keep California under the DNC... and you twist that and ask how many stops they've made for Bustabudget? Well, none... but that's irrelevant unless you are trying to distort something there. They have, however, been helping and campaigning for Davis as you well know, don't you? :-)

Additionally, your map is pretty but also irrelevant. I don't recall folks saying that Arnold will deliver California to Bush, merely that it would force the DNC to actually spend time and resources there in 2004 when they don't have to now. Even if Arnold can't give Bush the votes in California, it will force the DNC to use resources there that they would rather use in more borderline states.

Lastly, again that map is pretty... but it is comparing apples to asparagus. You showed states with your self-determined definition of RINO governors that went to Gore, and then you showed states with Dem governors that went to Bush. To show any meaning between the two, you need to show states with RINO governors that went to Bush. That IS what your supposed point is.... Arnold as a RINO and whether it will help CA go to Bush. Funny that you would completely leave that out of your graphic.

[FairOpinion]

"maybe "Tough Love" is in order. "

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Funny! That is exactly what we are going to get with Bustamante, by people voting for McC and splitting the vote.
Cruz named his platform of more taxes "Tough Love".

[tophat9000]

"I got very little from the state GOP and was outspent by my opponent by 5 to 1," says McClintock. "Despite all that, I lost by less than 1 percent of the vote."

The dirty little fact the "unelectable" propagandist do not want you to know

Liberal republican that controlled party money pulled it to sink conservatives in 2002

[ProtectorOfTwo]

" ..and Newt Gingrich, and Ann Coulter, and George Schultz, and Milton Friedman and on and on ...."

Do they actually live in California?? I am only a California resident, what the hell do I know...

[FairOpinion]

Yawn, more misquotes and out of context quotes.

FYI Ann Coulter endorsed Schwazenegger a long time ago. You were quoting her out of context too.

[ProtectorOfTwo]

"maybe "Tough Love" is in order. "

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Funny! That is exactly what we are going to get with Bustamante, by people voting for McC and splitting the vote.
Cruz named his platform of more taxes "Tough Love".




um...yes...I know...

[buwaya]

Total contempt for conservatives ? The Republicans ?
Jeez.
In the face of the liberal-democrat domination of California, this sectarian bickering is amazing. This is the way losers - political and otherwise - behave.

[EternalVigilance]

They've all lost their minds.

If all of them had backed the only conservative in this race, Tom would be ahead.

Instead we've been sold out.

Ann for one has committed treason.

[Tamzee]

Your statement implies far worse than Arny's position. Arny said that he uphold the second amendment, doesn't see any need for any more laws, but does believe (my words) that the present laws are not enforced, etc. Is he an absolutist on the 2nd amendment? In my opinion, no. But is he anti-2nd amendment? again, NO.

Well, well stated... thank you!

[Spiff]

FYI Ann Coulter endorsed Schwazenegger a long time ago. You were quoting her out of context too.

When? Where? I never saw it. Even so, it doesn't change the fact that she considers his positions be liberal.

[BunnySlippers]

Don't worry about it. They're all RINOs ...

[Tamzee]

Funny how the worst Arnold bashers also despise Bush...

[fqued]

you wrote: You are obviously naive about the issues relevant to the restoration and protection of our right to keep and bear arm--if you believe what you just wrote.

a very ironic ad hominem argument. Actually, I know precisely where the 2nd admendment comes from (being a legal historian of sorts, I know that it comes out of Blackstone's commentaries, and that he considered it a subsidiary of the rights to life, liberty, and property), what it originally meant, and the place it out to hold in our present society. I am also aware of the various ways that other countries deal with gun-control.

I, myself, and very pro-second amendment.

So, your ad hominem argument is way off base.

BUT, that is not the issue, the issue was your relatively incorrect statement about Arny and the 2nd amendment, and I addressed that based upon Arny's statements on Sean Hannity today. Your reply does not address facts, either in relation to Arny, or to me.