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To: TopQuark
This is factually incorrect. On plenty of threads, including this one, people routinely blame the situation on "the privileged few," the "fat cats," "the rich," etc.

You are now shifting the allegation from 'all management and all rich', to "the privileged few," the "fat cats," "the rich," which you surely know are euphemisms for the people in control of the decisions which clearly do affect the lives of laid off workers.

Now you may argue those decisions by those few were rational honest decisions, but you can not argue those few did not make the decisions to offshore jobs and lay people off, and you can't reasonably expect people who worked hard and trusted their managers and leaders, to like it. To paraphrase Josey Wales, "Don't urinate down my back and tell me it's raining"

If you want argue management tradeoffs and economic prerogatives, fine. But don't try to waive away the culpability of our business and economic leaders and instead blame FR posters who routinely do wish to discuss the real world problems caused by these leaders, which problems do primarily occupy the employment news.

130 posted on 09/25/2003 2:29:13 PM PDT by Starwind (The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
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To: Starwind
you can't reasonably expect people who worked hard and trusted their managers and leaders, to like it.

Trust to do what? No company promises lifetime employment. Trust in what, exactly?

If you opened a textbook, you would learn that management is hired by the owners of the company to produce profit. Naturally, the managers must act within boundaries of law and current standards of civility. That's all. If the manager continues to employ a person that does not justify his keep, that manager does not perform the function he was hired to do.

Trust? Suppose I am really courteous and work on maintaining good relationships with my neighbors. I trust that, should I get laid off, my neighbor will start paying my mortgage. I am laid off, the neighbor does not pay my mortgage, and I get mad at him. You ask, why? I tell you, "I trusted him, and I worked hard at being a good neighbor."

I suppose you'd reply, "Yes, but the neighbor has no obligation to pay your mortgage even if you were honest and worked hard on your relationshipl; he is... a neighbor." In fact, you'd probably suspect that the person claiming that is not well, if you know what I mean, so idiotic and divorced from reality these statements are.

Well, we have a mass idiocy at hand.

But don't try to waive away the culpability of our business and economic leaders I do not know whom YOU mean by "economic leaders." The managers are doing their jobs, just like the rest of us that are hired to perform a specified function. THeir jobs includes buying as cheaply as possible the factors of production, whether domestically or elsewhere. That's what they do.

As I said earlier, it is up to us to be "cheap" enough to keep our jobs. We achieve that (i) either by agreeing to lower salaries or becoming more productive, and (ii) lowering the cost of the benefits package we typically DEMAND from the employers. (To achieve the second we urgently need a tort reform).

and instead blame FR posters who routinely do wish to discuss the real world problems caused by these leaders, The placement of blame from yourself to some "leaders" is precisely what I talked about. It is based on false perceptions and lack of knowledge, and is unethical.

142 posted on 09/25/2003 2:47:22 PM PDT by TopQuark
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