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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Phaedrus; unspun
For instance, Hank says the future cannot be known. But math and physical laws work against that view; for instance, as soon as I press "post" I shall add 2 plus 2 in decimal and I know the answer will be 4 in decimal.

Yes, we can know the future contingently, on the basis of, if this then thus'n'so, but, as soon as you press post you may drop dead (heaven forbid) or the power on your calclator may go out and you will not do what you intend. You just don't know.

...But we have the mind of Christ ...

Yes, but which. The mind of Christ as the risen ascended Redeemer, or the mind of Christ within the limits of human capacity, just as His was while in this world, for though He was given the Spirit without measure (John 3:34) yet He could not tell if there were figs on a tree without looking (Mark 11:13). So maybe one of the things we cannot know is whether or not there is fruit on a tree, at least without looking. (It is similar to the cat in the cupboard, if you followed that earlier).

So what would be the point of trying to define "what cannot be known"?

Possibly none beyond an interesting exercise. Surely there would be some things we all would agree cannot be known, and those we disagreed on might provide insights into why we disagree, and what the differences in our understanding of knowledge are really based on.

You've already provided some interesting insights.

Hank

119 posted on 09/29/2003 12:33:54 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief; betty boop; Phaedrus; unspun
Thank you for your reply!

I’m glad you mentioned the fig tree. Speaking of what one can or cannot know, it is an example of something which requires spiritual perception.

The fig tree is a metaphor for Israel which is “a type” for the Christian walk. In the firstripe Israel was full of promise, but then she went astray:

I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: [but] they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto [that] shame; and [their] abominations were according as they loved. – Hosea 9:10

The fig tree incident you mentioned is an enacted parable of spiritual truth concerning the promising fig tree who was found barren of fruit:

And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not [yet]. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard [it]. Mark 11:12-13

He also spoke it as a parable of spiritual truth in Luke:

He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]: And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down. – Luke 13:6-9

Judgment, forgiveness and mercy are the subjects of the spiritual truths. Christ further explains:

And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]. And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. Mark 11:20-26

Christ knew the fig tree in Mark was barren, just like he knew Nathanael under the fig tree, an Israelite in whom is no guile:

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.

Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man. - John 1:47-51

The restoration of Israel to her homeland after the diaspora of about 2,000 years is seen by many as the fig tree just putting forth leaves in the following passage. I see it also as “a type” for the Spirit starting to bring forth spiritual fruit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control):

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. – Matthew 24:32-36


124 posted on 09/29/2003 1:35:13 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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