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To: betty boop; Phaedrus; unspun; bigcat00
Hank, you want to declare that mathematics is unreal, that pi is unreal, yet at the same time declare perfect isosceles triangles are "ubiquitous." I do find this confusing. But as to the point of whether mathematics is real or not, here's Tegmark's view of the matter:

Why do you do that? When did I suggest mathematics was not real?

Mathematics is a very powerful tool for dealing with those aspects of existence which are countable and measurable, and can even be stretched for use with some things which, in the strictest sense, cannot be counted or measured, such as the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its radius (pi) or the ratio of the length of either leg of an isosceles right triangle to the hypotenuse. I find it strange that those who understand mathematics not only fails to find an absolute value for pi and cannot find a unit of measure that can measure both a leg and hypotenuse of an isosceles right triangle, (and these are just very common limitations of mathematics) believe mathematics is some super-metaphysical power dictating the nature of the world. It's a very useful intellectual tool, but has not other special significance, except to the superstitious who are always in awe of what they do not understand.

My comment about isosceles right triangles being ubiquitous illustrates exactly what I mean. One of the most common geomatic forms in our world cannot be measure by mathematics. I would say mathematics is quite limited, as useful as it is.

Hank

101 posted on 09/28/2003 8:58:41 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief; betty boop; Alamo-Girl
It's a very useful intellectual tool, but has not other special significance, except to the superstitious who are always in awe of what they do not understand.

It's not so much that math is a useful tool but that elegant mathematics have been found to correspond extremely closely to the micro and macro behavior of the universe. Math turns out to be powerfully descriptive. Why this should be so is a deep mystery. Early man must have felt he created mathematics and later perhaps that he had discovered aspects of it but there was no reason, then or now, to suspect that it is so deeply entwined with the fundamental nature of the universe, from the Materialist/Objectivist point-of-view. It is nonetheless true that understanding the math has become increasingly important if we care to understand the universe. We aren't yet there.

103 posted on 09/29/2003 5:39:36 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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