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To: sinkspur
But, every trad I've ever met has to trash the Novus Ordo Church in order to be "right," so I expect nothing less.

First of all, I'm not trashing the "Novus Ordo" Church. There is only one Church, the Catholic Church. But it is suffering a major crisis. That crisis can be traced to the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. This has been admitted by the #2 man in the Church, Cardinal Ratzinger, and by Pope John Paul II himself on ocassion(his 1980 encyclical on the Eucharist where he also talked about touching the Sacred Host as being "A privilege of the ordained", his beatification sermon of Jacinto and Francisco at Fatima, and many other times).

You won't admit there even is a crisis; you diss 1500 years of Catholic tradition to prove yourself right. And when the Vatican actually seems to be making a move to curtail the abuses, you take the side of the American Church establishment and defend things that would have gotten people excommunicated a mere fifty years ago.

265 posted on 09/25/2003 7:11:02 AM PDT by Clintons a commie
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To: Clintons a commie
And when the Vatican actually seems to be making a move to curtail the abuses, you take the side of the American Church establishment and defend things that would have gotten people excommunicated a mere fifty years ago.

Which just goes to show how ridiculous excommunicating people for questioning disciplines and rubrics was and is.

Communion in the hand and under both kinds have firm theological bases, and can be traced to early Church practice. They are well established, and there is absolutely no evidence of widespread abuses in either practice.

You can take or leave altar girls, IMO, since altar servers do very little in the Novus Ordo anyway. But reception of the Eucharist is at the heart of Catholic practice, and, without some sort of theological rationale for restricting these practices, the Vatican will have a very difficult time making any retrogression stick. That's why there's so much of an uproar over this draft.

The "crisis" in the Catholic Church is not substantially different from the "crises" being experienced by every other mainstream denomination. The issues are cultural and various, and it is much too facile to blame the current difficulties on "Vatican II."

The Church made a huge mistake in the way it imposed the Novus Ordo in 1969. It would now be another huge mistake to try to restrict options which are common practice all over the world just because, as I suspect, there are Vatican reactionaries who don't like them.

I can't believe this draft would have seen the light of day if John Paul II were in perfect health.

268 posted on 09/25/2003 7:46:13 AM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter! You'll save at least one life, maybe two!)
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