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To: EternalVigilance
While those pictures of the babies are cool, they aren't really relevant to the overwhelming majority of the abortions done in the US.

Kinda relevant to the kid getting his limbs ripped off or his skin burned off or having his brains sucked out, don't you think?

Yes and no. The solution of the late-term abortion question is a helluva lot easier for a society to arrive at than the earlier-term stuff. This scanning technology seems to be geared more at saving late-term pregnancies.

But since the vast majority of abortions are done when the developing embryo (which is what a baby technically is before 12 weeks) is far less, well, "cute," it becomes more difficult to make the case to people that those beings - those 87% - are in fact People, with rights. That is the the very root of the issue being argued, and all the handwaving and shouting in the world isn't gonna change that. It may be easy for you and me to reach a conclusion on whether abortion should be allowed, but not everyone thinks the same way, and if you fail to recognize that and deal with it intelligently and honestly, you're just tilting at windmills.

You apologists for abortion are the main reason it still continues.

The main reason abortions continue is that there are women who want to have them. Period. The whole point of this article is that maybe some women will change their minds. I hope it does - if it changes their mind, good for them, good for the baby.

But even if Roe v. Wade were repealed (likely eventually), and all abortions became illegal (not so likely), there will still be women who have abortions. That's brutal and harsh too, but it's reality, something a lot of folks are a bit distanced from these days.

Snidely

53 posted on 09/23/2003 1:45:06 PM PDT by Snidely Whiplash
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To: Snidely Whiplash
You asserted: "But even if Roe v. Wade were repealed (likely eventually), and all abortions became illegal (not so likely), there will still be women who have abortions. That's brutal and harsh too, but it's reality, something a lot of folks are a bit distanced from these days."

Even though all fifty states and the Federal Government have laws against murder, murder continues to happen. But it is not protected by law, it is against the law of the society.

Currently, a very mistaken court, in 1973, made the killing of unborn individual human beings something legal in our society. From that beginning we see how far the society has degenerated into protecting the right to kill these unborn for any reason the woman has, as long as her hired killer writes some mish-mash about her health on the kill orders.

A more appropriate approach would have been to recognize that there is a precedent for allowing pregnancy termination, with two sub-set realities: self defense is a concept in our founding principles and is to be found throughout common and natural law. In the following two scenarios, a woman ought have the right to terminate a pregnancy, but this doesn't carry with it an automatic 'right to a dead second individual, a baby': 1) if a pregnancy actually endangers a woman's/girl's life, she ought have the right to end that pregnancy; 2) if a woman/girl is raped and thus impregnated via a criminal act, she ought have the right to terminate that pregnancy (she was forced into the increased risk to her life in sustaining a pregnancy).

The single principle of self-defense is at the heart of both the above sub-sets, but should not carry an automatic right to kill the innocent if it is possible to save the innocent unborn without violating the woman's right to choosing self-defense.

Will America ever reach the stage where the above is the norm? I cannot say, but I do know that technology is advancing so rapidly that even an early pregnancy which a woman chooses to end under the principle of self-defense will soon be sustainable (gestationally) outside her body, so the termination of a pregnancy need not have death of a second individual involved in the not so distant future.

54 posted on 09/23/2003 3:31:03 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Snidely Whiplash
The main reason abortions continue is that there are women who want to have them.

Well, yeah. That's the reason for every crime I can think of... because people want to do it or at least want the perceived benefits of doing it. But society looks at the costs and makes certain activities illegal. In this case, the cost is a human life and abortion should be illegal unless another life (the mother's) is in extreme jeopardy.

Should we prosecute the mother? No. But the abortionist should be prosecuted for murder in the first, and all who assist him, even down to office staff should be charged and prosecuted as accessories.

68 posted on 09/23/2003 8:37:01 PM PDT by night reader
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