Johnson had JFK Killed: new book

John Gibson Show ^ | 9/22/03 | Ed in NJ

[Ichneumon]

I'll have to see that before I'll believe it.

Well then, feel free to stage your own recreation.

[Oztrich Boy]

The officers who supposedly FOUND the rifle in the TSBD 'Sniper's Nest' identified it as a 'Mauser'

And we all know no cop has ever made a mistake.
But they were sort of right. The Carcano (aka. Mauser Paravicino) used the Mauser bolt action so could be loosely described as a 'Mauser'.

Josiah Thompson's Six Seconds in Dallas (the only "multiple shooter theory" book worth a d@mn) has photos of the rifle as discovered, and being carried out of the building. And it's a Mannlicher-Carcano.

[tpaine]

You are invited to explain what you imagine would have to have been "magic" about shot #2.
129 -Ichneumon-


[I don't imagine ~any~ shot as 'magical']

Post your evidence that shot #2 was the bullet that went through JFK & Connally, then was found at Parkland.. - Virtually undamaged. -- Go for it.

Unless you can do so, the whole Oswald as lone gunman theory is unproven speculation. -- Which is the real 'case closed'.
157 -tpaine-


Sorry, I don't answer questions from people who pose them as a substitute for answering *my* questions to them.

Answer my question, then I'll be glad to address yours. Until then, I will consider you someone who has no real interest in having an actual two-sided discussion.
-Ichneumon-


I don't agree that what you claim was the #2 shot was a 'magic bullet'..

Thus I cannot explain why you imagine it could have been shot #2 that went through JFK & Connally, then was found at Parkland..
To me this was pure speculation by the WC.
-- Say it isn't so. - Post your evidence.

[Shooter 2.5]

I'll bet they have no idea what the difference between a Carcano and a Mauser really is.

That includes the ones who claim they shot one.

[O Neill]

And we all know no cop has ever made a mistake.

This is just the FIRST mistake (btw, the officers who FOUND the rifle in the TSBD, didn't bother to MARK it in any way for later identification...Mistake #2). By the time you get through the Warren Report, there will be DOZENS of mistakes to accept...crucial witnesses will die or disappear...crucial questions will NOT be asked by highly experienced prosecutors, FBI...evidence altered...or destroyed and on & on.

==========================

PROBLEMS WITH THE CARCANO

The Carcano Oswald allegedly ordered from Klein's is not the same as the one entered into evidence by the WC. A coupon clipped from the February 1, 1963 issue [of American Rifleman, supposedly used by Oswald to order the rifle, shows a Carcano, order number, C20-T750, measuring 36 inches. The rifle entered into evidence, as CE 139 is 39 inches long. Interestingly, the Klein's advertisement entered into evidence by the WC is for a Carcano of the right length but comes from the November 1963 issue of Field and Stream. This ad was offered to the WC by the ubiquitous Postal Inspector Harry Holmes! (47)

This might be as good a time as any to mention that Harry D. Holmes was more than just a Postal Inspector. In addition to his postal duties, Holmes was an FBI informant. He appeared to have an uncanny knack of being in crucial places at crucial times during the day of the assassination and on subsequent days. Odd though it may seem, he also took part in the interrogation of Oswald at the DPD. (48)

There is a lesser-known problem relating to the Carcano that I believe to be significant. At the time it was recovered C2766 was said to be in generally poor condition with the firing pin in particularly precarious condition due to rusting. It was fitted with a scope that had to be fitted with shims to be used accurately. The problem here is that, according to the evidence, C2766 had only been in Oswald's possession for 8 months. It is claimed that during most of this 8 months the rifle was wrapped in an old rug. How exactly does a reconditioned rifle with a new, professionally fitted scope, get into such a poor condition in just 8 months? (49)

In contrast to all this evidence suggesting that Oswald had purchased C2766 there was a total absence of any evidence that he ever bought the Western Cartridge Company ammunition that was allegedly used in the assassination. Only 4 bullets were apparently found at the scene, 3 in the form of spent shells and 1 live round in the rifle. Despite thorough searches of property and premises associated with Oswald no ammunition was ever found.

This particular ammunition was part of a consignment of 4 million rounds made by the Western Cartridge Company of Alton, Illinois and shipped it 4 lots numbered 6000 - 6003. The ammunition was apparently purchased by the US Army to supply allies but in reality it was purchased by the CIA for use in the weapon provided to the Cuban rebels being trained for the abortive Bay of Pigs invasion. Part of the consignment found its way on to the surplus market and was available in Dallas. The owners of gun shops stocking this ammunition were questioned but did not recall selling any to Oswald or anyone resembling Oswald.

In fact, investigators were unable to find any of the normal paraphernalia one might expect to find in the possession of a gun owner such as lubricating oil and cleaning kit.

This raises another dilemma. The ammunition allegedly found at the TSBD had marks consistent with it having been chambered more than once. The implication of these marks is that the shells may well have been fired previously, the empty shells collected and then reloaded. Another possibility is that the shells were fired in another rifle and then loaded into C2766 to produce forensic evidence. (50)

Needless to say, Oswald did not appear to own any of the equipment necessary to reload ammunition. In Dallas, 2 gun shops stocked Western Cartridge Company 6.5mm ammunition but only one of these reloaded bullets with the same type of hunting load used in the suspect bullets. He was John Masen, a right-wing extremist and member of the notorious Minutemen organization and a man with a history of illegal arms dealing. Perhaps the most significant thing about Masen is that he bore an uncanny physical resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. (51)

===========================

You got a lot of 'splainin' to do, Lucy!

[Tares]

Please cite the source of the text you posted in posts 155 and 165.

[Shooter 2.5]

Marina testified Oswald worked the bolt on the rifle for practice. There isn't anything unusual about using live ammo to simulate chambering and unchambering.

The guy didn't have any cleaning equipment and then you're wondering why a rifle became in poor condition in 8 months?

Get your story straight.

Nothing on your "odd trigger pull"?

[tpaine]

You got a lot of 'splainin' to do --
-O Neill-


Isn't it amazing how big bros supporters have the hardly waits to 'explain' away the easily arguable minutiae about JFKs shooting, -- but can't address the Reports glaring errors?

--- The challenge:

Can anyone post convincing evidence that shot #2 was the bullet that went through JFK & Connally, then was found at Parkland.. - Virtually undamaged?

The Warren Commission could not, thus the Oswald as lone gunman theory fell apart.

[Tares]

Can anyone post convincing evidence that shot #2 was the bullet that went through JFK & Connally, then was found at Parkland.. - Virtually undamaged?

Already done. Read the link in post 146.

[tpaine]

'Convincing evidence' are the key words.

McAdams stuff has convinced no one. He simply dismisses everyone else as "silly", then rehashes the WC arguments, arguments well refuted by hundreds of other reputable researchers.


--- The Kennedy Assassination ---
By John McAdams

"He didn't even have the satisfaction of being killed for civil rights . . . . It's — it had to be some silly little Communist." — Jackie Kennedy, on hearing that a leftist had been arrested for her husband's murder.


It's the most controversial case in modern American history. Did Lee Harvey Oswald kill John Kennedy by himself, or did a conspiracy do it? And if a conspiracy did it, did the conspiracy include Oswald?
If you are like most Americans, you believe that a conspiracy killed Kennedy. And if you are like most Americans, you have heard a vast number of bogus factoids about the case.
This web site is dedicated to debunking the mass of misinformation and disinformation surrounding the murder of JFK.
If you are believer in Oswald as a lone gunman, you are likely to enjoy this web site, since most of that misinformation and disinformation has come from conspiracists.

But if you are a sophisticated conspiracist, you likely understand that the mass of silly nonsense in conspiracy books and documentaries does no service to the cause of truth in the assassination, and simply buries the "case for conspiracy" under layers of bunk

[Tares]

McAdams stuff has convinced no one.

So you say. Rather than relying on your opinion, interested readers can read the article for themselves and decide whether or not the single bullet theory holds up to the critics.

The Single Bullet Theory.

[OESY]

The simplest answer is the right answer. Who benefited most from Kennedy's death? LBJ.

And here I thought the simplest brother benefited the most. Ted Kennedy became de Kingfish of the Family is his father's eyes, and later de Kingfish of the Senate -- with no famous (and more conservative) brothers to challenge his powers.

[O Neill]

Please cite the source of the text you posted in posts 155 and 165.

Those were 2 different sources. Shortly after I posted them, a guy from COMCAST came by & said I'd won Internet Cable for life! He set me all up & then...pooof!...the sources were GONE! Strange...but I'll be okay, now...

[O Neill]

Nothing on your "odd trigger pull"?

I’ve come around to your point of view, the expert testimony regarding an ‘odd trigger pull’ is not really relevant. The hard facts show that the rusty, dilapidated rifle offered to the Warren Commission was never fired by Oswald, merely planted by the FBI/Dallas PD to support the ‘A. Hidell’ mail order cover story.

[tpaine]

Indeed they can... They can also see your inablity to meet the challenge with any convincing evidence..

JFK's assassination remains an open case..

[tpaine]

Indeed, wise comment; "the expert testimony regarding an 'odd trigger pull' is not really relevant."

-- After all, you can ask at any gun shop to establish that..

[rattrap]

[8mmMauser]

I was in Texas stationed north of there when it happened and remember sarcastic LBJ jokes way back then, like LBJ telling authorities he wanted his rifle back after they took it from Oswald.

Looked obvious to lots of us at the time it happened.