U.S. to Sharply Cut Number of High-Tech Work Visas

Reuters ^ | September 22, 2003 | Alan Elsner

[RobbyS]

But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation, said finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was critical to his company's future. "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the future for the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the advanced education, skills, and expertise we need," he said.

Baloney! Fire a few lawyers and they can find the money to hire engineers. Plenty of "unattached"and qualified guys just in the DFW area.

[Alter Kaker]

I think this is stupid move for America, but good for India (and Israel). Instead of Indians (and Israelis) coming to America to make money and spend their wages, American companies will now move jobs to India, and Indians will spend money at home.

[vp_cal]

ok, so then what happens if the foreign office
is organized as a 'wholly owned but distinct subsidiary'?

also, you are assuming that companies currently incorporated in the US will continue to choose to remain that way. I was implying earlier that these US corporations will move their headquarters to wherever is most beneficial to them: Bermuda, Hong Kong, Bombay, etc...

imagine IBM moving to Hong kong...

[Southack]

"they will just raise the US prices for those items. those industries won't be coming back to the US under any circumstances, once they go offshore."

Don't be daft. Americans aren't going to pay MORE money for foreign goods and services when they can get better quality and faster turnarounds here in the U.S.

[u-89]

>did we win this one? or am I mis-reading the article?

I think we've been had. From what I get from the article and elsewhere this is a Republican re-election ploy. The GOP congress is worried about job creation (or lack thereof) only because it will hurt them at the polls. Cutting down on the visas will increase white collar jobs for Americans which will show on the records as lower unemployment and greater growth. This wins votes and neutralizes Democrat attacks. As a extra bonus is showing the base they care about the immagration issue. Guarenteed after Nov.'04 it's back to business as usual, the numbers will get adjusted upwards - probably higher than they are now.

[Southack]

"ok, so then what happens if the foreign office is organized as a 'wholly owned but distinct subsidiary'?"

It doesn't matter. By definition, what we are talking about is the offshore production of goods or services that are coming back into the U.S.

But the U.S. buyer is re-selling (in one form or another) those goods or services to other Americans for U.S. Dollars.

And the foreign producer of those goods or services are paying their local employees in the currency of that country (e.g. Rupees in India or Yuan in China).

So if the foreign exchange traded value of the U.S. Dollar declines, then those goods and services cost more to Americans...and at the same time, U.S. products appear cheaper in the U.S. (versus the foreign competition) and actually **are** cheaper when exported to those foreign countries.

[RightOnline]

"But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation, said finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was critical to his company's future.

"We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the future for the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the advanced education, skills, and expertise we need," he said."

He's a go**amned liar. There are plenty of educated and skilled AMERICAN workers who are pounding the bricks as we speak. Problem is, they won't work for a fraction of the pay and a bowl of curry (or rice).

[Southack]

"imagine IBM moving to Hong kong..."

You are missing the point. Even if IBM moved to Hong Kong, IBM's main clients are still in the U.S.

Those U.S. clients are paying IBM in U.S. Dollars.

If the U.S. Dollar declines in value, then whoever is in Hong Kong will have to demand MORE U.S. Dollars for those same goods and services that are being exported to the U.S. (i.e. that means things from overseas cost more here).

Well, devalue the Dollar far enough and all of a sudden it will cost MORE to import goods and services than for what they can be made in the U.S.

---

This is pretty basic stuff. Very basic economics. It's sad that it's taking multiple posts to convey such rudimentary information to posters on FR.

No doubt public schooling isn't what it should be here...

[Southack]

Oh good grief, please read Post #69.

[1rudeboy]

It's sad that it's taking multiple posts to convey such rudimentary information to posters on FR.

Happens all the time. [sob]

[FITZ]

American companies will now move jobs to India, and Indians will spend money at home.

Let the Indians buy all these products --- what is needed next would be tariffs that get added to products made in other countries --- a "foreign tax" that makes up for what our high income taxes, business tax, and costs of all the regulations imposed by the government cost. For example if $5 of a $10 product made in the US really goes to taxes, worker's comp, social security etc etc, then $5 should be added to a similar product made in another country.

[Crispy]

This is great news for us tech workers!

[kesg]

Your rational self-interest would tell you that there are fewer cultural barriers to surmount with hiring your own countrymen.

Not necessarily. Even in cases in which barriers exist, these barriers may be insignificant in relation to the benefits that I could realize from hiring the more productive or valuable immigrant over the less productive or valuable American. In a free society, I should be free to hire anyone regardless of his nationality, at least as long as that person is here legally.

It would also tell you that trust and security are greater with your countrymen than with new immigrants.

Not necessarily. It depends on the moral character of the individuals involved. I'm better off hiring an immigrant of high moral character over an American of low moral character.

If you don't have even a basic loyalty or concern for your country, your rational self-interest would tell you to run fast, because the angry mobs of exploited workers are coming to burn down your immigration import house.

Maybe in the Nazi Germany of the 1930s, but not in the United States -- at least not yet. In this country, we should have the freedom to employ the best person for the job, regardless of nationality.

[kesg]

Because people came to work here in the United States during the dot.com hey day and then took jobs for less money than the Americans who do the same job. Therefore, Americans got laid off and foreigners got to stay and do their jobs.

Welcome to capitalism 101. If person A puts out a better product or service at the same or lower price than person B, then person A should prevail in the marketplace. As an American citizen, I should be free to hire person A without interference from person B acting through the coercive power of government -- which is exactly what the change in immigration policy attempts to do.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Its a start. Now how about stop the invasion that is displacing blue collar workers at a far greater rate than the techie situation?

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Cool. Then "we the people" and our elected officials have every right to impose a tariff against you under the Constitutional "common good."

[kesg]

In essence, you are accusing me, the greedy capitalist employer, of being selfish for wanting to hire the more productive and valuable foreigner over the less productive and valuable American. You are exactly right. This country -- a country built by earlier generations of productive immigrants -- was founded on the principle that each person has the inalienable right to his own life, his own liberty, his own happiness. His own -- not someone else's. This freedom includes the freedom to hire the best, most productive workforce I can find for my business, without regard to irrelevant factors such as race or nationality. We are losing that freedom today, step by step, to socialist wolves in so-called "conservative" sheeps-clothing (as well as liberal wolves who don't even bother to disguise themselves).

Let me give a personal example of what I think we are losing here. My mother and her family immigrated to this country 50 years ago. Neither of them spoke a word of English at the time. Her father (my late grandfather), a civil engineer, eventually founded a construction company in Pennsylvania that employed hundreds of people for decades. My mother has owned and operated a business (a successful restaurant) for over 20 years and is currently building a second restaurant. Neither one of them took jobs or wealth from Americans who were already here, but created new jobs and wealth of their own and thereby enriched the lives of the thousands of Americans with whom they did business.

These people are the people against whom the new immigration policy is aimed. The resulting losses to this country will be incalculable. Meanwhile, the overpriced and therefore unemployed American worker will continue to be overpriced and unemployed.

[Realistic_in_the_SW]

Which resturant is that? Perhaps we should take a closer look at where we spend the few dollars we have left......

[Realistic_in_the_SW]

You missed the best part. According to Mr. Patrick Duffy (esq.), Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation. We poor stupid American "High-Tech" workers "Lack the Education and Talent" to help a company like Intel compete globally. Hmmmm, lets think about this for a moment. Obviously Mr. Duffy doesn't think too highly of an education system, that he himself is a product of.

That being said, if we (American High-Tech) workers being products of that same
"Education System" lack the Education and Skills to compete. How does Mr. Duffy compete. Obviously Mr. Duffy doesn't lack the "Talant" an "EdukayShun" to realize that his statements should be applied to attorneys as well.

Perhaps Mr. Duffy and all those really smart (Asian Sub-continent) people over at Intel should get up off there "Seven or Eight Figured" duffs and go to a local K-12 school and make some suggestions about how to improve this system, or better yet dig into an offshore account of two and toss a buck or two towards an inner-city school. Oh my gosh, how about putting a billion or two into a couple or three of college funds (None Ivy League, of course) that will make it easier for "American Youth" to get a excellent education and compete globally.

What really gets my "Jockeys in a Wad" is to have these
"Attorneys" talk about this and as usual say "We can pay the H1B holders less to do the same job as you do".
Of course this can't be admitted too, that would be illegal and Mr. Duffy knows the law.
Well, Mr. Duffy and Company, the last time I checked a single family home in this country averaged around $186,000. In India the average is about Rs 70,000 and Rs 80,000 for those who can afford it ( Of course this implies which class you are in). Maybe that's why we "American" IT workers as well as everyone else want to make a reasonable bit of cash.

But what would I know about all this "High Falutin" stuff. I'm just an "Talent Lacking" High-Tech person with about 27 years of Hard-Core experience, that's had to take a 30% cut in my salary just to keep my "Piddly-ass Job" from being taken to Phoon India to be done by some really smart people that are really Well Educated and Talented. Funny I've been doing this job, pretty darned good over the past years, for all of a sudden to be Un-Talented and Un-Educated.

[null and void]

These people are the people against whom the new immigration policy is aimed.

Really? An H1-B is REQUIRED to go home after 6 years. (Where they often take the skills they learned here to start/work for companies that compete with their former US employer.)