A Magic Bullet for the Anti-Schwarzenegger Camp (Option B for McClintock Supporters)

My own thoughts... | 09/22/2003 | DoughtyOne

[Tamzee]

dunno...

seemed pretty civil to me, especially compared to other recall threads ;-)

[Rabid Dog]

I'm not married to the PPIC poll - he got 5% on it when he was polling high single or low double digits everywhere else. It's his worst poll.

Bustamante is consistantly at about 30% on all the polls. Arnold, Tom and the undecided vote range all over the place. Oftentimes the "undecided" vote is higher than all three candidates.

I would feel alot better about everything if there was another Field Poll (I believe he topped out at 14% about two weeks ago). Right now we are operating in a vacuum - a deliberate vacuum. If there is no Field Poll after the debate, I am going to cover my house in Tin Foil because there will truly be a conspiracy going on to keep the voters in the dark. There is nothing preventing the Republican committee from commissioning its own private independent polls and focus groups - they have the money - they just don't want to do it.

[Rabid Dog]

Thank you Tamsey - that is really sweet of you! He is much better looking in person - but then most people are (except, perhaps Angelyne).

[DoughtyOne]

The fact still remains, McClintock can barely poll more than 1/8 of the potential vote. We are therefore forced to deal with that reality.

Bustamante is a racist separatist who has been hell on wheels against gun ownership and promises to raise taxes by $9 billion as well as keep the exhorbitant car license fees in place. On top of that his party absolutely dispises Prop 13. If they guy got the slightest help from the legislature, he'd dump that in a moment.

Now, do we wish to see him or Schwarzenegger. If there's no difference to you on these issues, or of you think Schwarzenegger is worse than Bustamante, I've provided an out for you.

[Tamzee]

There were other good ones of him last time I looked at that slide-show but couldn't find them today. I do remember they were from the debates, though, if you did a search on those.

You're most welcome :-)

[DoughtyOne]

I do believe there has been a deliberate attempt to skew and then remain silent. The LA Times is a perfect example.

I'll guarantee the individual camps know precisely what the perspective vote is.

[DoughtyOne]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/987181/posts?page=17#17

[DiamondDon1]

D1:

Yeah, you go to the McClintock camp and hand them this proposal. When you draw back a bloody stump I'll be here to help.

I already have...several times and I am still here. I have written articles about "Cruz's Plan to Divide and Conquer the GOP"...it melted down into a war. Check out what I said in that piece, and how I got "questioned" (i.e. attacked) for saying things about Cruz.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/985132/posts

Being fairly honest here, most of the attacks were by those against Tom, though in the piece I did not say anything bad about Arnold. In fact, I defended him against the wild assertions from the Cruz/Davis crowd. What I did say to "inflame" the Arnold supporters was that I thought it was time to "drop" the "UNELECTABLE" issue and that Tombots (like me) would drop the "RINO" issue since neither one gets us anywhere.

Another thing I have done is that I talked to Hugh Hewitt on his radio program in the "fruitless" hope that he stop the infighting (he refers to Tom as Tom McSlots now...). Hugh does not get that the "not-so-civil" war must stop before we all lose.

This war is being continued by the RATS...I can't prove it, and I don't know which posters are part of it, but I know it is true. If you doubt it, just look at the numbers of posters that throw gas on the fire constantly. You will notice that the gas is coming from both sides...

As a general point, sticking up for a candidate does not make anyone stupid, and believing he can win doesn't either. After all, if we KNOW that Tom cannot win, we would move on, we just believe he can win (however irrational that may appear to be to others).

Anyway, I am working on a piece just about Cruz...it will take a while (gathering facts, etc.) but I will get there. I can do graphics, but my abilities are more towards writing than graphics, that is why I suggested Cruz graphics (thinking about it, we probably have enough on Davis though more is better...).

Talk to you soon...

DD

[DiamondDon1]

Hey Tamsey:

Peace offering to the McClintock Camp :-)

Thank you from one Tombot...

DD

[Tamzee]

So very welcome :-)

[DoughtyOne]

Let me tell you what my experince as been. This one incident reveals it in a nutshell.

I made two comments about Cruz Bustamante regarding law and order the other day, based on conventional wisdom regarding the democrat's long standing views. A person who had for weeks refused to admit that Schwarzenegger stated he wouldn't raise taxes and there was no proof of it, was able to find quotes of Bustamante's within three minutes to disprove my comments. To cap it off, they actually said Bustamante wasn't as bad as people were saying.

Look, Bustamante can say he's for three stikes if he likes, I don't buy that for a moment. Any appointments that guy makes will do damage to conservative views on crime.

[DiamondDon1]

D1:

Not disagreeing here...but what were the statements and contradictary evidence about Cruz? I would like to include it in the article if appropriate...

Thank you for your help...

DD

[Snuffington]

Now, do we wish to see him or Schwarzenegger. If there's no difference to you on these issues, or of you think Schwarzenegger is worse than Bustamante, I've provided an out for you.

Not that it matters, because I'm not a Californian, but your advice seems strange. I'm not convinced of your certainties. I don't believe McClintock is a certain loss (though I'm realistic enough to admit he's a long shot). Nor that Bustamante is a certain win if Arnold and McClintock stay divided.

The advantage of a strong McClintock showing even in a lost election is that the next "Arnold" coming down the pike would feel some incentive to court the conservative vote better than Arnold has. The disadvantage of conservatives throwing weight behind a candidate who ignores them is that they get taken for granted, and their issues are therefore ignored. I'm not sure why something this basic is so ignored lately.

From afar it looks like the biggest factor surpressing McClintock's support is Arnold's conservative supporters. And they mostly tried to kill his candidacy in the cradle, not after waiting to see if it was viable. That's odd to me, considering how Arnold seems to be taking great pains to maintain his distance from conservatives.

One thing for sure, California will not have a viable conservative political movement in the near future by following this sort of political strategy. They don't seem capable of even gaining some rudimentary conservative concessions from a candidate they throw their weight behind. What's worse, they don't even seem to think they ought to ask for them. It's too easy for the Democrats to outmaneuver conservatives who spook so easily.

Maybe Arnold is the best option for now. But the way he's being chosen definitely deserves some closer scrutiny.

[daviddennis]

Let me assume for the sake of argument that there is something in Arnold's program I really don't like at all, some killer issue that prevents me from supporting him. So I can vote for McClintock or Bustamante.

DoughtyOne is correct in saying that the best way to prevent Arnold from being Governor is to vote for Bustamante. But the reason I'm not voting for Arnold doesn't make Bustamante acceptable, either.

The only principled stance, as a Republican, is either vote with who you really agree with or not vote at all. And at least voting for who you really agree with, even if he has no chance of winning. is a principled act.

After all, if McClintock did well, that would be a nice base for next time.

The only principled reply is to make clear that we're facing a crisis, and we need someone capable of dealing with a crisis. As the saying goes, in a true crisis, politics goes by the wayside, and we work cooperatively to try and sort things out. It is this kind of leadershp that is tragically lacking at present.

We need a true leader of men in Sacramento, and in my view that's Arnold. But I don't hate those who oppose Arnold; I understand and sympathise with their viewpoint.

I think a nice way of looking at this is that not even Arnold hates Tom or his supporters. He would like to see them out of the way, sure, but he doesn't have any rancor for them. Sure, some of his supporters feel this rancor, but I'm convinced that Arnold himself understands principled people and has been nothing but classy in dealing with Tom and his supporters.

And that's something I believe Tom's supporters should think about before bashing Arnold.

Arnold may not believe in everything you do, but at heart he's a good guy, and wants almost exactly what we do in terms of budget and fiscal issues.

D

[CyberAnt]

I've already made my decision, and there is nothing more for me to discuss.

Besides .. I can think of better things to do than be called "idiot, lamebrained, stupid, ignorant" etc.

To me - this constant barrage by the Arnold voters says to me they are terrified their guy is losing and they are trying to intimidate other voters to support their guy. Sorry .. too late for me! I've already made my choice.

[Rabid Dog]

Thanks for weighing in - your logic is impeccable as always.

It is unfortunate that a couple of dozen people spread out amongst the two camps have made FreeRepublic so unpleasant - but it is posters like you that bring it back to its usual greatness.

[BonnieJ]

Interesting analogy! It makes sense, too.

[Texas Eagle]

Over the last month there have been literally hundreds if not thousands of anti-Schwarzenegger posts.

And we pure-as-the-driven-snow Schwarzegroupies have not posted a single anti-McClintock post.

[Texas Eagle]

Most pro-McClintock posters on Free Republic are Democrats shilling for Bustamante.

MOST are Bustamante shills? Not ALL?

How can you tell which ones are actual McClintock supporters and which ones are Bustamante shills?

[nickcarraway]

You are accusing Jim Robinson of being a shill for Democrats? Now I've heard it all.