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To: Hank Kerchief
Would you care to define 'alive' as in 'assuming he is alive'? From previous discussions I think I know from whence you come to this discussion, but there are many reading this thread who would find it instructional to read your 'special' definition since you do not consider the alive embryo age as an alive human being and you do not have a specific age during gestational life that you allow as the onset of aliveness as a human being. Care to elaborate giving specifics?
47 posted on 09/22/2003 2:47:24 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN
"There is nothing so absurd but if you repeat it often enough people will believe it."

This statement precisely describes the tact utilized by the Court in the years following its 1947 announcement. The Court began regularly to speak of a "separation of church and state," broadly explaining that, "This is what the Founders wanted—separation of church and state. This is their great intent." The Court failed to quote the Founders; it just generically asserted that this is what the Founders wanted.

The courts continued on this track so steadily that, in 1958, in a case called Baer v. Kolmorgen, one of the judges was tired of hearing the phrase and wrote a dissent warning that if the court did not stop talking about the "separation of church and state," people were going to start thinking it was part of the Constitution. That warning was in 1958!

Nevertheless, the Court continued to talk about separation until June 25th, 1962, when, in the case Engle v. Vitale, the Court delivered the first ever ruling which completely separated Christian principles from education.

Secular Humanism

With that case, a whole new trend was established and secular humanism became the religion of America. In 1992 the Supreme Court stated the unthinkable. "At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life. In 1997, 40 prominent Catholic and Protestant scholars wrote a position paper entitled, "We Hold These Truths," in which they stated, "This is the very ... antithesis --- of the ordered liberty affirmed by the Founders. Liberty in this debased sense is utterly disengaged from the concept of responsibility and community and is pitted against the ‘laws of nature and the laws of nature’s God. Such liberty degenerates into license and throws into question the very possibility of the rule of law itself.

48 posted on 09/22/2003 2:54:38 PM PDT by f.Christian (evolution vs intelligent design ... science3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- * architecture * !)
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To: MHGinTN
Would you care to define 'alive' as in 'assuming he is alive'? From previous discussions I think I know from whence you come to this discussion, but there are many reading this thread who would find it instructional to read your 'special' definition since you do not consider the alive embryo age as an alive human being and you do not have a specific age during gestational life that you allow as the onset of aliveness as a human being. Care to elaborate giving specifics?

I have no idea what you think I believe, but, for the record, I believe every cell in the human body is alive, a human zygote is alive from conception, as is every other zygote. Why in the world would you think I would not say they are alive? Aren't you sure they are alive?

...since you do not consider the alive embryo age as an alive human being...

Within the context of biology, a human embryo is a stage in a human life. Within the context of political definitions, neither a human embryo or even a young child ought to be considered a fully developed human, and laws that apply to adult human beings ought not apply, at least in the same way, to the unborn or recently born.

Hank

50 posted on 09/22/2003 5:14:10 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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