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Srebrenica Casualty Numbers Challenged by Experts as Politicized and Ethnically Divisive
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decani/message/77206 ^ | September 20, 2003 | The International Strategic Studies Association (ISSA)

Posted on 09/21/2003 8:34:13 AM PDT by joan

BALKAN & EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN POLICY COUNCIL

PO Box 20407, Alexandria, Virginia 22320, USA
Telephone (703) 548-1070.
Facsimile (703) 684-7476.
Website: www.StrategicStudies.org.

Contact: Gregory Copley, 703-548-1070

Srebrenica Casualty Numbers Challenged by Experts as Politicized and Ethnically Divisive

WASHINGTON, DC, September 18, 2003: On the eve of the dedication of a monument to Muslims killed at Srebrenica, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, in 1995, a group which includes a former UN official, intelligence experts, and journalists, released a statement challenging the alleged casualty number of 7,000 victims as "vastly inflated and unsupported by evidence".

They asserted that one-sided interventionist policies permitted al-Qaida forces and radical Islamists backed by the Iranian clerical government to take root during the Bosnian war, clouding the future of the region. As well, they agreed that the "memorialization" of false numbers in the monument actually appeared to be intended to perpetuate regional ethnic hatred and distrust and to deliberately punish one of the victim groups in the Bosnian civil war. Former US President Bill Clinton is expected to attend and legitimize the dedication of the monument at Srebrenica, which was constructed using one million dollars of US Embassy funds at the request of High Representative Paddy Ashdown. But former BBC journalist Jonathan Rooper, who has researched the events in Srebrenica since 1995, says that the region was a graveyard for Serbs as well as Muslims and that a monument to inflated casualties on one side "serves neither truth nor the goal of reconciliation".

Phillip Corwin, former UN Civilian Affairs Coordinator in Bosnia during the 1990s, said: "What happened in Srebrenica was not a single large massacre of Muslims by Serbs, but rather a series of very bloody attacks and counterattacks over a three year period which reached a crescendo in July of 1995." Mr. Corwin is author of Dubious Mandate, an account of his experiences during the conflict. He points out that Srebrenica, which was designated a safe zone, was never demilitarized as it was claimed to be, and that Muslim paramilitary leader Nasir Oric, who controlled Srebrenica, launched repeated attacks on surrounding Serb villages. He noted: "I was the United Nations" chief political officer in Bosnia the day that Srebrenica fell. Coincidentally, it was the same day that the Bosnian Government tried to assassinate me as I drove over Mount Igman on the way to Sarajevo."

Intelligence expert and strategist Gregory Copley, President of the International Strategic Studies Association and the ISSA's Balkan & Eastern Mediterranean Policy Council, accused US Ambassador Donald Hays, who serves as Deputy High Representative of Bosnia-Herzegovina, of using the power of the Office of the High Representative (OHR) governing Bosnia "to force Bosnian Serb elected officials to sign a fraudulent document accepting the official version of events in Srebrenica. The leaders of Republica Srpska [the predominantly Serbian province of Bosnia-Herzegovina] invited the office of the High Representative to join their investigation of the events in Srebrenica. Instead they were told they were told to sign a statement drafted by OHR endorsing casualty figures they publicly disagreed with." Copley added: "It is significant in that the former US Clinton Administration fought this war unquestioningly supporting only the Croat and Muslim factions and disregarding the historic alliance of the Serbian peoples with the US. Then, after the war, the Clinton Administration failed to follow US tradition in helping to heal the wounds of war, but, rather, perpetuated ethnic divisions and hatreds. This differs from the US role in all other wars."

"Unfortunately, all of the policies and officials put in place in the region by the Clinton Administration remain. The current Bush Administration has neglected the Balkans and has, instead, allowed the Clinton policies to continue, which has meant that divisive politics continue. This, then, requires the ongoing commitment of US peacekeeping forces in both Bosnia and in the Kosovo province of Serbia."

Copley added that, according to intelligence obtained from Islamist sources, that the monument was intended to become a shrine for radical Islamists in Europe and site for annual pilgrimages. He added: "Deputy High Representative Donald Hays forced the Republica Srpska Government to issue a statement which accepted the radical Islamists" version of the Srebrenica affair, despite the fact that the Office of High Representative does not have any investigative capability of its own to make a valid assumption on the matter. As well, the International Criminal Tribunal on Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague " no friend of the Serbs " has itself not completed its investigation of Srebrenica, and nor has the office of the Government of Republica Srpska which has been working with the ICTY."

Amb.. Hays and OHR chief Paddy Ashdown forced the Republica Srpska statement merely to ensure that the opening of the "shrine" " to be attended by Clinton " would vindicate Clinton Administration policies of support for the radical Islamists." Yossef Bodansky, who has written several books on the war in Yugoslavia and also serves as Research Director of ISSA, calls the 7,000 figure "disinformation" and notes that "all independent forensic evidence points to Muslim casualties in the hundreds, possibly the low hundreds. Continued emphasis on such allegedly high numbers of Muslim deaths at Srebrenica also obfuscates the Muslim murders in that city, earlier, of Serb civilians." Bodansky also wrote extensively on the link between Osama bin Laden and the Bosnian Islamists in numerous articles and special reports and three books, including Offensive in the Balkans: the Potential for a Wider War as a Result of Foreign Intervention in Bosnia-Herzegovina (1995), Some Call it Peace: Waiting for War in the Balkans (1996), and Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America (1999).

Rooper says that at least 1,000 Serbs, mostly civilians, were killed by forces led by Oric who did not bother to hide his crimes, even showing videotapes of slaughtered Serbs to Western journalists. Meanwhile a group of academic experts and journalists from the United States, Canada, Germany, France, Serbia, and the United Kingdom has been organized by Professor Edward S. Herman of the University of Pennsylvania to examine the evidence regarding events at Srebrenica in July 1995 and earlier, how the media reported these events, and the political role of claims about Srebrenica. It is expected that a report from this group will be available in June 2004. Rooper points out that the 40,000 inhabitants the UN used in July of 1995 before the capture of Srebrenica roughly matches the number of former residents accounted for in the aftermath. A commander of the Muslim-dominated Army of BiH (Bosnia-Herzegovina) later confirmed to parliament in Sarajevo that 5,000 BiH troops escaped largely intact to Tuzla while the UN registered some 35,632 civilian survivors.

While the capture of Srebrenica was reported in July 1995, as it unfolded, an international outcry only took place a month later, after Madeleine Albright, then US representative to the UN, held up a photo which she said provided evidence that thousands of Muslim victims had been buried at field near Nova Kasaba, 19 kilometers from Srebrenica. Excavations which took place following the war, however, yielded 33 bodies at Nova Kasaba. Two years after the event, a total of 400 bodies had been found at 20 sites near Srebrenica, an area which had seen bloody fighting over a three year period. Instead of acknowledging that there was no support for the original figures, Rooper says a various means were used to prop up the official story.

"Spokesmen for the Clinton Administration suggested that Serbs might have moved the bodies to other locations. Rooper points out that excavating, transporting and reburying 7,000 bodies was "not only beyond the capabilities of the thinly stretched, petrol-starved Bosnian Serb Army, but would have been easily detected under intense surveillance from satellites and geostationary drones.

By 1998, thousands of bodies excavated from all across Bosnia were stored at the Tuzla airport. Despite state of the art DNA testing, only 200 bodies have been linked to Srebrenica. Around 3,000 names on a list of Srebrenica victims compiled by the Red Cross matched voters in the Bosnian election in 1996. "I pointed out to the OSCE that there had either been massive election fraud or almost half the people on the ICRC missing list were still alive," says Rooper. "The OSCE finally responded that the voting lists had been locked away in warehouses and it would not be possible for them to investigate."

The inflated Srebrenica statistics are part of a larger picture that intelligence experts such as Bodansky and Copley find troubling. They say US policymakers have been slow to recognize that Bosnia is viewed as a strategic base for operations in Europe by al-Qaida and the HizbAllah. In 1993, when the Clinton Administration was strongly backing the Muslim President of Bosnia, Alija Izetbegovic, Osama Bin Ladin was regular visitor to his office, according to Renate Flottau of the German weekly, Der Spiegel. The Bosnian daily, Dani, reported that the Vienna Embassy of BiH issued a passport to Bin Ladin in 1993.

A special report by Copley, issued Tuesday, September 16. 2003. noted that Bosnia-Herzegovina Ambassador Huso Zivalj, who issued the passport to Bin Ladin, later served as Bosnian Ambassador to the United Nations in September 11. "It is becoming increasingly clear that the movement of Zivalj to the New York post just before (and his departure just after) the September 11,2001 attacks was not coincidental."

"To refer to US Bosnia policy as a success story is to disregard substantial evidence to the contrary. Instead of misplaced symbolism in Srebrenica, US policymakers need to take a hard look at assumptions which have guided US actions in the region," Copley said.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: balkans; campaignfinance; racak; srebrenica
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
Other than a FR Serboapologist, of course

So, asking for evidence is being a Serboapologist? You are a real gem! I don't need to read comic strips. All I have to do is read your posts. They keep me laughing all day.

541 posted on 10/15/2003 8:30:44 AM PDT by kosta50
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To: mark502inf
only one--Calley's--committed crimes

There is actual footage of the crimes being committed. Some of Calley's soldiers, true heroes, actually refused his orders. One US helicopter pilot risked his own life when he placed his chopper between the soliders and the civilians to stop the massacre.

To claim that Calley was responsible for all the deaths, is too far fetrched if for an apologist. Somone had to kill 300 or more civilians (children included), and it wasn't just Calley. Afterwards, cover-up was reeking. The entire platoon was awarded war decorations after the massacre, and the official Army bulletin reported the incident as a "victory."

Calleys' boss, Cpt. Medina, got off on a technicality, but the brass knew what happened, and then they tried to cover up.

Yes, My Lai was an isolated incident. Thank God. It was tried, half-a$$, and a scapegoat was found guilty and then let go. There was no justice done. But that's another matter.

542 posted on 10/15/2003 8:44:38 AM PDT by kosta50
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To: mark502inf
there is a HUGE difference between not spotting a report that should have cued some questions or an investigation to uncover a crime versus the actions of Serb senior leadership in planning & coordinating the commission of a crime

Agree. The only thing missing is proof. The star witness of questionable moral caliber first denied, then spilled his beans, then retracted his testimony on this subject. The others who were convicted were either low ranking pions or general staff offciers who denied such charges.

If you can prove your allegations, you need to be in the Hague instead of wasting your time on FR.

543 posted on 10/15/2003 8:51:31 AM PDT by kosta50
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To: kosta50
To claim that Calley was responsible for all the deaths, is too far fetrched if for an apologist.

Calley was the on-the-scene leader of the platoon that committed the massacre. I wasn't trying to say he himself shot everyone, although he did in fact personally do some of the killing.

You called Calley a scapegoat--I disagree. He was a murderer and the only commissioned officer personally on site. As such, he had a special responsibility which he failed to accomplish--resulting in the deaths of hundreds & discrediting the U.S. Army & the American cause. He should still be in jail.

544 posted on 10/15/2003 9:47:23 AM PDT by mark502inf
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Comment #545 Removed by Moderator

To: mark502inf
You called Calley a scapegoat--I disagree. He was a murderer and the only commissioned officer personally on site.>>

You forget the commander, LTC Frank A. Barker, Jr., who was KIA the following week in a copter crash.

His rubbing from the Wall is in my room. Good to remind one that we are not without sin.
546 posted on 10/15/2003 10:02:50 AM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: kosta50
Maybe you didn't hear that Nikolich retracted his story>>

So did Susan Atkins at the Manson trial. Didn't make her any less guilty. Guilty bloodmonsters withdraw confessions all the TIME.
547 posted on 10/15/2003 10:04:37 AM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: kosta50
They keep me laughing all day.>>

Maniacally, I'm sure.
548 posted on 10/15/2003 10:06:25 AM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: mark502inf
However, unlike Srebrenica, My Lai was an isolated incident, not a program of criminal acts deliberately planned & coordinated by HQ & executed by various subordinate units. >>

Exactly. Mladic planned the thing from the ground up. Show me evidence that Westmoreland or whoever gave the order for My Lai and then we can talk.
549 posted on 10/15/2003 10:07:31 AM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: mark502inf
Mark, hundreds of civilians were wontonly killed by sombody, not just Calley. His order was illegal. Your officer cannot order you to make him coffee or to shoot civilians. If the soliders who were involved in the killing (80 were originally indicted) did so under threat, they should have reported the incident immediately.

The fact that the unit recived a citation betrays cover-up on the Batallion and higher levels.

The fact that Calley is not in jail reinforces my impression that justice was not served. We admit to the wrong, we condemn the wrong, we are outraged, but a war crime goes unpunished. What's the point of all the lip service? The results show otherwise.

Man's falling. It's an age-old issue: we are all capable of evil.

550 posted on 10/15/2003 10:13:40 AM PDT by kosta50
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
You say it's an anti-Serb conspiracy

Where?

Look, all the evidence you want is at the ICTY

Yeah? And I thought you had it -- because you were there countin'. Which is it? So far you have come up only with nothing except empy links and an occasional personal insult. Pretty sad.

551 posted on 10/15/2003 10:22:35 AM PDT by kosta50
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Comment #552 Removed by Moderator

To: cowboy up
You got your K-Y ready, eh? No dice.
553 posted on 10/15/2003 1:40:59 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones; kosta50
You forget the commander, LTC Frank A. Barker, Jr., who was KIA the following week in a copter crash.

RBJ, Barker wasn't at the site of the massacre--was in a helo and then at the battalion ops center. Pretty clear that he either falsified or deliberately with-held info later that day, but again, that is different than ordering or participating or observing and failing to stop the crime.

Calley's platoon represented one of 10-15 combat platoons in Barker's battalion task-force, depending on how it was configured that day. It is no reflection on Barker that the incident occurred--very difficult for a battalin commander in combat conditions to know what is happening in every one of his platoons. Afterward, his conduct in regard to checking and investigating and reporting is pretty damning. As he was killed shortly thereafter we'll never get the whole story.

Kosta, apparently we're talking past each other--I agree that it wasn't just Calley doing the killing--I'm not excusing his soldiers--I'm saying that Calley as the officer directly in charge had a responsibility to enforce discipline and ensure orders were carried out. Instead he did the opposite. His offenses were the most egregious.

554 posted on 10/15/2003 7:13:02 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
Guit has to be proven. We assume innocence before guilt. One can be dound guilty or not guilty but not innocent. We want your proof. Where are the pictures and the accuraete forenisic lists?
555 posted on 10/15/2003 7:15:14 PM PDT by kosta50
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To: kosta50
darn, the fingers are faster than my thoughs...dound=found, guit=guilt, accuraete=accurate. Ecco Domani!
556 posted on 10/15/2003 7:16:34 PM PDT by kosta50
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To: kosta50
Guit has to be proven. We assume innocence before guilt. One can be dound guilty or not guilty but not innocent. We want your proof. Where are the pictures and the accuraete forenisic lists?>>

You are hiding behind a shield you don't even believe in, because the court of law with jurisdiction--and which has convicted at least one major commander to 47 years in prison for GENOCIDE--you wave away as an "anti-Serb conspiracy." Because you can't believe they did the whole thing. Your lack of ability to believe the truth is not my problem.

You are not interested in the truth. You can't *HANDLE* the truth. The truth, which I can testify to from personal knowledge, is that thousands of people were MURDERED in Srebrenica in 1995, that those people were Muslims, and their killers, Serb (and Serbian!) secret policemen and other members of police units SPECIFICALLY ASSIGNED to do so.

You aren't interested in the truth. All you want to do is deny what happened because it terrifies you that you put so much pride in your ethnic identity--which makes as much sense as having pride in the color of your hair, for surely you earned neither.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Not only did the BSA commit GENOCIDE but it caused them to lose the war. Deal with it.
557 posted on 10/16/2003 3:26:24 AM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: mark502inf
RBJ, Barker wasn't at the site of the massacre--was in a helo and then at the battalion ops center. Pretty clear that he either falsified or deliberately with-held info later that day, but again, that is different than ordering or participating or observing and failing to stop the crime. >>

Not under international law, it ain't. The fact that he didn't immediately arrest Lt. Calley and CPT Madina means he ratified what they did and would have faced the same punishment. Which of course was a spanking, a "naughty naughty," a presidential pardon, and a very comfortable living in S. Georgia.
558 posted on 10/16/2003 3:29:08 AM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
You are beating around the bush. Spare me the sermon, just produce the proof to back up your claims made on this Forum. Otherwise, drop the subject.
559 posted on 10/16/2003 4:43:09 AM PDT by kosta50
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Comment #560 Removed by Moderator


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