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Srebrenica Casualty Numbers Challenged by Experts as Politicized and Ethnically Divisive
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decani/message/77206 ^ | September 20, 2003 | The International Strategic Studies Association (ISSA)

Posted on 09/21/2003 8:34:13 AM PDT by joan

BALKAN & EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN POLICY COUNCIL

PO Box 20407, Alexandria, Virginia 22320, USA
Telephone (703) 548-1070.
Facsimile (703) 684-7476.
Website: www.StrategicStudies.org.

Contact: Gregory Copley, 703-548-1070

Srebrenica Casualty Numbers Challenged by Experts as Politicized and Ethnically Divisive

WASHINGTON, DC, September 18, 2003: On the eve of the dedication of a monument to Muslims killed at Srebrenica, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, in 1995, a group which includes a former UN official, intelligence experts, and journalists, released a statement challenging the alleged casualty number of 7,000 victims as "vastly inflated and unsupported by evidence".

They asserted that one-sided interventionist policies permitted al-Qaida forces and radical Islamists backed by the Iranian clerical government to take root during the Bosnian war, clouding the future of the region. As well, they agreed that the "memorialization" of false numbers in the monument actually appeared to be intended to perpetuate regional ethnic hatred and distrust and to deliberately punish one of the victim groups in the Bosnian civil war. Former US President Bill Clinton is expected to attend and legitimize the dedication of the monument at Srebrenica, which was constructed using one million dollars of US Embassy funds at the request of High Representative Paddy Ashdown. But former BBC journalist Jonathan Rooper, who has researched the events in Srebrenica since 1995, says that the region was a graveyard for Serbs as well as Muslims and that a monument to inflated casualties on one side "serves neither truth nor the goal of reconciliation".

Phillip Corwin, former UN Civilian Affairs Coordinator in Bosnia during the 1990s, said: "What happened in Srebrenica was not a single large massacre of Muslims by Serbs, but rather a series of very bloody attacks and counterattacks over a three year period which reached a crescendo in July of 1995." Mr. Corwin is author of Dubious Mandate, an account of his experiences during the conflict. He points out that Srebrenica, which was designated a safe zone, was never demilitarized as it was claimed to be, and that Muslim paramilitary leader Nasir Oric, who controlled Srebrenica, launched repeated attacks on surrounding Serb villages. He noted: "I was the United Nations" chief political officer in Bosnia the day that Srebrenica fell. Coincidentally, it was the same day that the Bosnian Government tried to assassinate me as I drove over Mount Igman on the way to Sarajevo."

Intelligence expert and strategist Gregory Copley, President of the International Strategic Studies Association and the ISSA's Balkan & Eastern Mediterranean Policy Council, accused US Ambassador Donald Hays, who serves as Deputy High Representative of Bosnia-Herzegovina, of using the power of the Office of the High Representative (OHR) governing Bosnia "to force Bosnian Serb elected officials to sign a fraudulent document accepting the official version of events in Srebrenica. The leaders of Republica Srpska [the predominantly Serbian province of Bosnia-Herzegovina] invited the office of the High Representative to join their investigation of the events in Srebrenica. Instead they were told they were told to sign a statement drafted by OHR endorsing casualty figures they publicly disagreed with." Copley added: "It is significant in that the former US Clinton Administration fought this war unquestioningly supporting only the Croat and Muslim factions and disregarding the historic alliance of the Serbian peoples with the US. Then, after the war, the Clinton Administration failed to follow US tradition in helping to heal the wounds of war, but, rather, perpetuated ethnic divisions and hatreds. This differs from the US role in all other wars."

"Unfortunately, all of the policies and officials put in place in the region by the Clinton Administration remain. The current Bush Administration has neglected the Balkans and has, instead, allowed the Clinton policies to continue, which has meant that divisive politics continue. This, then, requires the ongoing commitment of US peacekeeping forces in both Bosnia and in the Kosovo province of Serbia."

Copley added that, according to intelligence obtained from Islamist sources, that the monument was intended to become a shrine for radical Islamists in Europe and site for annual pilgrimages. He added: "Deputy High Representative Donald Hays forced the Republica Srpska Government to issue a statement which accepted the radical Islamists" version of the Srebrenica affair, despite the fact that the Office of High Representative does not have any investigative capability of its own to make a valid assumption on the matter. As well, the International Criminal Tribunal on Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague " no friend of the Serbs " has itself not completed its investigation of Srebrenica, and nor has the office of the Government of Republica Srpska which has been working with the ICTY."

Amb.. Hays and OHR chief Paddy Ashdown forced the Republica Srpska statement merely to ensure that the opening of the "shrine" " to be attended by Clinton " would vindicate Clinton Administration policies of support for the radical Islamists." Yossef Bodansky, who has written several books on the war in Yugoslavia and also serves as Research Director of ISSA, calls the 7,000 figure "disinformation" and notes that "all independent forensic evidence points to Muslim casualties in the hundreds, possibly the low hundreds. Continued emphasis on such allegedly high numbers of Muslim deaths at Srebrenica also obfuscates the Muslim murders in that city, earlier, of Serb civilians." Bodansky also wrote extensively on the link between Osama bin Laden and the Bosnian Islamists in numerous articles and special reports and three books, including Offensive in the Balkans: the Potential for a Wider War as a Result of Foreign Intervention in Bosnia-Herzegovina (1995), Some Call it Peace: Waiting for War in the Balkans (1996), and Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America (1999).

Rooper says that at least 1,000 Serbs, mostly civilians, were killed by forces led by Oric who did not bother to hide his crimes, even showing videotapes of slaughtered Serbs to Western journalists. Meanwhile a group of academic experts and journalists from the United States, Canada, Germany, France, Serbia, and the United Kingdom has been organized by Professor Edward S. Herman of the University of Pennsylvania to examine the evidence regarding events at Srebrenica in July 1995 and earlier, how the media reported these events, and the political role of claims about Srebrenica. It is expected that a report from this group will be available in June 2004. Rooper points out that the 40,000 inhabitants the UN used in July of 1995 before the capture of Srebrenica roughly matches the number of former residents accounted for in the aftermath. A commander of the Muslim-dominated Army of BiH (Bosnia-Herzegovina) later confirmed to parliament in Sarajevo that 5,000 BiH troops escaped largely intact to Tuzla while the UN registered some 35,632 civilian survivors.

While the capture of Srebrenica was reported in July 1995, as it unfolded, an international outcry only took place a month later, after Madeleine Albright, then US representative to the UN, held up a photo which she said provided evidence that thousands of Muslim victims had been buried at field near Nova Kasaba, 19 kilometers from Srebrenica. Excavations which took place following the war, however, yielded 33 bodies at Nova Kasaba. Two years after the event, a total of 400 bodies had been found at 20 sites near Srebrenica, an area which had seen bloody fighting over a three year period. Instead of acknowledging that there was no support for the original figures, Rooper says a various means were used to prop up the official story.

"Spokesmen for the Clinton Administration suggested that Serbs might have moved the bodies to other locations. Rooper points out that excavating, transporting and reburying 7,000 bodies was "not only beyond the capabilities of the thinly stretched, petrol-starved Bosnian Serb Army, but would have been easily detected under intense surveillance from satellites and geostationary drones.

By 1998, thousands of bodies excavated from all across Bosnia were stored at the Tuzla airport. Despite state of the art DNA testing, only 200 bodies have been linked to Srebrenica. Around 3,000 names on a list of Srebrenica victims compiled by the Red Cross matched voters in the Bosnian election in 1996. "I pointed out to the OSCE that there had either been massive election fraud or almost half the people on the ICRC missing list were still alive," says Rooper. "The OSCE finally responded that the voting lists had been locked away in warehouses and it would not be possible for them to investigate."

The inflated Srebrenica statistics are part of a larger picture that intelligence experts such as Bodansky and Copley find troubling. They say US policymakers have been slow to recognize that Bosnia is viewed as a strategic base for operations in Europe by al-Qaida and the HizbAllah. In 1993, when the Clinton Administration was strongly backing the Muslim President of Bosnia, Alija Izetbegovic, Osama Bin Ladin was regular visitor to his office, according to Renate Flottau of the German weekly, Der Spiegel. The Bosnian daily, Dani, reported that the Vienna Embassy of BiH issued a passport to Bin Ladin in 1993.

A special report by Copley, issued Tuesday, September 16. 2003. noted that Bosnia-Herzegovina Ambassador Huso Zivalj, who issued the passport to Bin Ladin, later served as Bosnian Ambassador to the United Nations in September 11. "It is becoming increasingly clear that the movement of Zivalj to the New York post just before (and his departure just after) the September 11,2001 attacks was not coincidental."

"To refer to US Bosnia policy as a success story is to disregard substantial evidence to the contrary. Instead of misplaced symbolism in Srebrenica, US policymakers need to take a hard look at assumptions which have guided US actions in the region," Copley said.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: balkans; campaignfinance; racak; srebrenica
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To: getoffmylawn
Ask Joan if the Serb forces ever committed atrocities in Kosovo or against the Bosnian Muslims--ask her for an example of an incident. And she has not been the only denier on here. This should be easy enough. Could joan and alternate please post some links to some Serb attrocities that we're not denying?

The count-down continues....

461 posted on 10/13/2003 1:09:57 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones; Hoplite
They were Dutchmen peeing off a dike (spelled with an "i"); at least that's the way my grandmother told it to me. And my name is Tonto van Kowalski.
462 posted on 10/13/2003 1:18:43 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
There's a joke in there somewhere about wood, shoes, and feet, but I'm not going anywhere near it.
463 posted on 10/13/2003 2:15:56 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: kosta50
You saw 4,000 skeletons, did you? You personally counted them, didn't you? Not 3,999, not 4,012 -- 4,000 on the dot?>>

4000 +- 50 stacked 12 high in a building the size of a football field with four major refrigerators within. I have pictures.

It ain't just a river in Egypt.
464 posted on 10/13/2003 2:25:27 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones; kosta50
But you cannot tell the identity of someone from their skeleton.

You claim there are documents - how many? 4,000? Has anyone bothered to scan this documents and put them on the web, or list the names on the documents?

If they have the names, then DNA tests can be performed immediately, ascertaining that the documents are valid.

Why not have a document with DNA confirmation, and then forensic evidence for the individual?

If they have the documents, yet the bodies are still in storage after all these years - 8! - then the documents are likely FAKES or had been planted. There's no reason for a body to still be in the unidentified category if they've had documentation on it years ago.

465 posted on 10/13/2003 2:42:34 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan
post 461
466 posted on 10/13/2003 3:09:45 PM PDT by mark502inf
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Comment #467 Removed by Moderator

To: mark502inf; wonders
This is from an old FR-mail letter - a reply to my questions about what happened in Croatia. The author, "wonders", was a UN official throughout the war there and after. She writes of Serb atrocities against Croats within a general atmosphere of greater, wider scale and coordinated atrocities the Croats perpetrated against the Serbs. I will acknowledge the quote *-ed:

...As for the military serving in the Mission -- the ones I knew did sympathise with the plight of the Serbs (even if they first came to Mission thinking the Serbs were the bad guys) and were horrified and frustrated that the media twisted everything so. When they went home to England or Holland or wherever on leave and tried to tell people how things REALLY were, no one would believe them. It was truly frustrating for all of us. We had only each other to talk to, really....

Also, one must remember that it wasn't all one-sided in Croatia. *In early 1992, just before UNPROFOR deployed, there were Serb atrocities against Croats. They were fairly isolated, but much-publicised*. And, in such incidents, the Serbs just threw the bodies into mass graves (I'm talking around 4 to 15 here, not hundreds). These were, of course, excavated with great media attention after "Op Storm."

The Croats threw bodies in the river, incinerated them, or disolved them with lime and other chemicals. After "Op Storm" they also buried them in established cemeteries on top of bodies properly buried years before, and even made two "show graveyards" containing over 100 bodies each (one in Knin, one in Dvor) which were technically not a "mass graves" as the bodies were buried so many inches apart and marked with numbers. No horrifying headline-grabbing "mass graves" to be found!

To me, such methodical attention to avoiding bad PR is indicative of high-level coordination and orders from the top, whereas "mass graves" could be the work of out-of-control paramilitaries, or even, in some cases, villagers. Not to mention clean-up after an actual military battle (happens in all wars -- even American soldiers had to make mass graves for Japanese after battles in the Pacific -- are they war criminals?)...

So, we have:

Serb crimes against Croats - fairly isolated

Croat crimes against Serbs - indicative of high-level coordination and orders from the top

This shows that the media was spinning things opposite to what they were. The media portrays Serbs acting against Croats from the highest levels, while Croats got a bit of smaller scale revenge, but the evidence shows its the other way around.

468 posted on 10/13/2003 3:37:05 PM PDT by joan
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To: mark502inf
Tell me that didn't conform to your expectations.
469 posted on 10/13/2003 4:07:08 PM PDT by Hoplite
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Comment #470 Removed by Moderator

To: joan
*In early 1992, just before UNPROFOR deployed, there were Serb atrocities against Croats. They were fairly isolated, but much-publicised*.

Joan, it might have been a better reflection on your credibility if you hadn't buried this two sentence grudging acknowledgment written by someone else in the middle of several paragraphs more of excuses for Serb actions and behind a smokescreen of words about Croat atrocities.

I'd originally asked for a specific example of a Serb atrocity against the Bosniacs or Kosovar Albanians, but this is probably the best you can bring yourself to do.

471 posted on 10/13/2003 6:37:13 PM PDT by mark502inf
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Comment #472 Removed by Moderator

To: cowboy up
Cowboy, not challenging what happened to your friend. Just the knee-jerk reaction by you and Joan & others to deny any Serb wrong-doing. Lots of atrocities and tragedy in the Balkans over the last 15 years. However, there is only one group of people on this forum claiming perpetual victimhood and denying any wrong-doing and that is our little group of Serb apologists.
473 posted on 10/13/2003 6:59:33 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: cowboy up
No.

I do not post war porn. Why would you?
474 posted on 10/13/2003 7:09:41 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: joan
You claim there are documents - how many? 4,000? Has anyone bothered to scan this documents and put them on the web, or list the names on the documents?>>

The number 4000 is the number the facility was built to handle and process. As of my last visit there, spring 2002, there were 83 identified, all Muslims, id'd through clothing, IDs, and confirmed through dental records or family identification (jewelry, etc). I understand the number of identified dead now exceeds 1000, mostly due to DNA identification.
475 posted on 10/13/2003 7:13:54 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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Comment #476 Removed by Moderator

Comment #477 Removed by Moderator

To: mark502inf
Cowboy, not challenging what happened to your friend. Just the knee-jerk reaction by you and Joan & others to deny any Serb wrong-doing.>>

Of course they deny serb wrong-doing. Serbs killing muslims can't be wrong to these people. In fact, it might be kinda fun.

I'm not being ironic. During the war, Serbian *tourists* would come to the seige of Sarajevo from Belgrade on buses and *pay money* for the chance to snipe passersby on the streets below. Think of it as the latest version of that story in Jr High School that we all read (those of us who can): "The Most Dangerous Game."
478 posted on 10/13/2003 7:18:25 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: cowboy up; Ronly Bonly Jones
Documents are pieces of paper with personal info, not war porn.
479 posted on 10/13/2003 7:19:05 PM PDT by joan
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To: cowboy up
I have respect for the dead. You do not. At least if the dead were Muslims. Actually, come to think of it, you don't respect Serb dead either. Wasn't it you, in an earlier incarnation, who kept posting that hideous picture of the three Serb guys's heads in a bucket until threatened with a zot?
480 posted on 10/13/2003 7:20:04 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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