Ashcroft haters spreading lies on Patriot Act

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | September 20 2003 | THOMAS ROESER

[knighthawk]

Ping

[Lee Heggy]

Everything in the article not-withstanding, Ashcroft bears watching. There's just something about the man. Good intentions have a way of going awry when power becomes absolute and oversight is suspended.

[William McKinley]

Another of the 34 credible allegations was a prisoner who complained that he was yelled at excessively by a prison guard.

[eno_]

In defense of the "administrative supeona" power in the Patriot Act, defenders of Ashcroft cite the fact there are 300 OTHER types of investigations where the government can sieze documents without judicial review. Gee! That makes it better!

None of the above statement is lies. The Patriot Act is a dangerous power grab.

Could this have been done right? It sure could have: If Ashcroft had announced the end of no-knock raids in cases where national security is not at stake, the prosecution of Lon Horiouchi, the end of administrative subpeonas in non-national security cases, the end of proprty siezures without due process, etc. THEN imposing, for a limited time, the powers in the Patriot Act would be just fine with me.

But he didn't. The Patriot Act is just a futher erosion of freedom. Would you send your son to war to defend the fraction of freedom John Ashcroft thinks you deserve?

[CMAC51]

>> There's just something about the man. Good intentions have a way of going awry... <<

Quick, get the rope. Let's hang him. He's just been indicted as a good man.

It would be fascinating to see any of his accusers held to even a fraction of the standard for proof and evidence that he is being held to.

[eno_]

I have no problem with the concept of illegal combatant and with the Gitmo prison. All that does not erode our freedoms here. Finding and whacking, or interring in Gitmo, the AQ people here and abroad is the GOOD part of the War on Terror.

Building a police state at home undermines the purpose of the War on Terror.

[William McKinley]

Building a police state at home undermines the purpose of the War on Terror.

It would, if that was what is happening. But it isn't.

[William McKinley]

Good thing then that there has been no suspension of oversight, and no granting of absolute power.

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Liberals hate him and paint him as McCarthy. McCarthy was a GOOD man btw, who got the same paint job as Atty. General Ashcroft, only worse.

Anyone the Liberal Commies despise is obviously a good person in *my* book.

[KC_Conspirator]

Right on. Anyone who says they are suspiscious of Ashcroft, who had nothing to do with passing the Act, is usually a hate-America left afraid that their seditious acts will be discovered. There are some genuine civil ibertarians though that voice some valid concerns once a lefty gets in the WH again.

[yoe]

”...where the government can seize documents without judicial review.”

Like Mrs. Clinton’s FBI files? Or having your “enemies” audited by the IRS or your credit investigated without your permission? Or being told not to ‘talk’ about an incident like Mrs. Clinton’s barreling through an airport check point and knocking down a guard and injuring him? Or threatening the wives or husbands of those who would blow the whistle on some of the Clinton escapades? Covering up travel expenses or just refusing to report them as the Clintons did? Never answering hard questions and punishing the pundit who dared to ask them? People loose their jobs if not their heads every day from the Clinton machine and yet people still criticize John Ashcroft for truly trying to protect Americans and America by tightening up loose areas however, let the trashy Clintons off the hook for their efforts to silence anyone who would disturb their agenda in any way. What a bunch of idiots!

By the way, learn what Gen. Clark had to do with WACO, he along with Mrs. Clinton and Reno had the upper hand - Bill was not at home...so they say.

[joyful1]

Aw, forget that silly Patriot Act.

Let's just practice jumping from high buildings, and putting the fires out from our burning bodies, and taking lots antibiodics all the time.

Like too many freepers, I'd rather die burning alive than sign on to that silly billy Patriot Act.

Won't it be fun watching our families burning alive? Better than supporting that durn Patriot Act!!

[Servant of the 9]

Sure, we all know about Richard Nixon and his break-ins, but in U.S. history, most wartime rights-throttling horror stories came when Democrats were in control.

Absolutely correct, and we had best think very carefully about what some future democrat (Hillary) will do with these powers. They are supposed to run out automatically, but after they have been renewed a few times, for the War on Terror will be long, they will become permanent.

These powers will allow Hillarys AG to secretly declare, say the NRA, a terrorist organization, and imprison any members she wishes indefinitely without trial. Because the Govt. will not even have to admit they are holding you, there can be no apeal to the courts.

Heinrich Himmler never had such absolute power, and While the Republicans are the good guys, they won't keep power forever,

So9

[eno_]

What do you call administrative subpoenas but "suspension of oversight?"

[eno_]

How about YOU send YOUR childeren to the army to defend Ashcroft's church lady vision of "freedom?" Mine won't be going.

[eno_]

Read my old posts. I don't think you'll find I was soft on Waco.

Also, do you see any of the Waco raiders being prosecuted, or even outed, by the current administration?

[joyful1]

You will have the last word. Unfortunately, we won't be hearing it. You are strong today. The horror of watching what you will see will change that.

Torture. That is what you will see. Your dying words will be something to the effect, that "boy was I stupid. I didn't do what needed to be done to prevent this horror!"

[joyful1]

Eno, you are what militant Islam was counting on.