[u-89]

Wars are sometimes necessary however a wise policy is to avoid getting oneself into positions where they become more likely when there are other options. It is unwise to go out of one's way to make enemies where they need not exist. Conservative and libertarian critics of the the Iraq war do not specifically pick on this one occurrence or this one particular administration. They tend to see our foreign polices dating back to the Span Am War as unwise and motivated by reasons other than national defense. History shows how our interventions and meddling have not solve problems, rather they have been complicated. War begets more war.

Terrorism is the result of political problems. They can not be solved with the military. Pursuing war for economic gain, personal advancement or spreading ideology is a crime and a sin.

[hilaryrhymeswithrich]

I'll give you the words of my ten year old who seems to have a pretty good grasp on the relative simplicities of this,(paraphrased from our pre-war talks) "I think hurting other people is wrong, especially if good ones will get hurt getting the bad ones. But sometimes people don't listen to words, I think they might have problems their brains and the way they think,kind of like Bin Laden. If I were a mom or a dad and had to think about my kids, I think I would do anything for my kids and America, even if some good people get hurt. Goodpeople got hurtinNew York and we weren't even in a war,noonehadtime to leave the city or stay home like they did in Iraq. And Saddam knew the rules. He could have done the right thing and protected his own country. If you gave me as many chances as he had I'd never be in trouble! I'm glad President Bush is our father right now."

Basically, what I got out of our conversation is what I have come to discover as an adult..... it sucks to be a grown up! No sh**. But sometimes you have to do the awful,gut wrentching things it takes to see the big picture and do what is right even if some people get hurt and you aren't in with the in crowd. Pacification and endless rounds of Kumbaya don't feel real good when you are scraping the guts of a toddler off a Pennsylvania field. Glad she gets it even if so many grown ups don't.

[Unam Sanctam]

Americans are not a warlike people. That is pure rubbish. We have an orderly society. We go to war for defense and principle, not because we like to.

[jonalvy44]

yawn...When we taking out Syria, N. Korea and Iran?

[x]

Yes, there is public support for wars, and yes, popular culture does contribute to that support. The "war party" vs. "peace party" schema doesn't seem to contribute much, though.

Given the right set of specific circumstances, all of us would support a war. Given another set, everyone would favor peace. It's the circumstances that matter. Most people aren't in either the "war party" or the "peace party" on any permanent basis.

Vietnam contributed a lot to polarization: writing for "us" and demonizing or ridiculing "them." This war shouldn't be allowed to do that to the country. Arguments ought to be aimed not at the "hawk" or "dove" but at the wise "owl" in our natures.

[300winmag]

Wars are sometimes necessary however a wise policy is to avoid getting oneself into positions where they become more likely when there are other options. It is unwise to go out of one's way to make enemies where they need not exist. Conservative and libertarian critics of the the Iraq war do not specifically pick on this one occurrence or this one particular administration. They tend to see our foreign polices dating back to the Span Am War as unwise and motivated by reasons other than national defense. History shows how our interventions and meddling have not solve problems, rather they have been complicated. War begets more war.

If that was true, than the regime of Bill and Hitlery would have to be judged to have the most successful foreign policy in history. Every terrorist attack against America was met with more money and concessions to the attackers. Red China was allowed to buy MIRV and nuclear secrets from us. North Korea was rewarded with food, cash, and reactors. Pakistan got a nudge to help in developing their primitve nukes. Military action on our part was limited to gaining personal advantage for the klintons. Hitlery wanted intervention in the Balkans, and got it. Bill only launched cruise missiles to drown out grand jury proceedings against him.

War with Germany and Japan means we won't be fighting either country again, at least not for another few generations. Of course, that's because we learned from the mistakes of the earlier go-rounds, and helped rebuild their societies so they could turn to socialism and not spend their considerable abilities on militarism.

Militant islam brought war to America, and ten times more civilians were dead within a couple of hours in America on 9-11 than troops were killed in Iraq to date. Islam will now experience its first, and long-overdue, reformation, courtesy of the American military. Along the way, the countries we conquer will be upgraded to at least 18th-century Western levels. The world will be better for it, even though America will continue to be hated. There is no way to prevent the rest of the world from benefitting from the sacrifices we and our allies make, but benefit they will, even as they smear us.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

The sheer bellicosity of many ordinary people is as undeniable as it is shocking...

This one is tailor-made for you. :) Have any cool pics of destruction?

[VxH]

What are the sins that the God of Jacob hates the most?

Pride and Arrogance.

[justa-hairyape]

'War begets more war.'

Only if you are the victor.

Historically losers tend to end up dead or broken.

As they say in Michigan football country

Hail to the victors valiant,
Hail to our conquering heros !

[tet68]

Terrorism is the result of political problems. They can not be solved with the military.

Tut, tut, read your Clausewitz.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

Excerpt: many Americans take pleasure in "kicking ass," and they do not much care whose ass is being kicked or why.

This article is full of crap right from the first sentence above. They act like people for the war are taking pleasure in beating up little old ladies in the streets. These vermin are our country's sworn enemies, period.

[paul51]

I don't know when people will ever learn. Do not, I repeat DO NOT read the sf chron. I will rot your brain and turn you into a morally bankrupt, American hating and self loathing panty waste.

[jwalsh07]

Terrorism is the result of political problems. They can not be solved with the military. Pursuing war for economic gain, personal advancement or spreading ideology is a crime and a sin.

Sheer lunacy.

That's the best I can offer on what you are selling.

[Burkeman1]

Read through this entire thread and I commend your bravery for posting it. I particulary like the poster who identified himself as a hard liner Likudnik and then said he would have you stripped of your citizenship and property and give you an a**whopping as you were deported. My question to that poster is from what country would you have u-89 deported?

[sheltonmac]

Wars are sometimes necessary however a wise policy is to avoid getting oneself into positions where they become more likely when there are other options. It is unwise to go out of one's way to make enemies where they need not exist. Conservative and libertarian critics of the the Iraq war do not specifically pick on this one occurrence or this one particular administration. They tend to see our foreign polices dating back to the Span Am War as unwise and motivated by reasons other than national defense. History shows how our interventions and meddling have not solve problems, rather they have been complicated. War begets more war.

Terrorism is the result of political problems. They can not be solved with the military. Pursuing war for economic gain, personal advancement or spreading ideology is a crime and a sin.

Well said.

[roses of sharon]

You are falling prey to the Cult of Islam's, "America made me do it", rational.

Terrorist groups thrive on your kind of thinking.

How else would they have gotten away with murder, and suicide bombing blackmail, for the last 30 years?

In no way is politics involved, if it were, Islam would now be civilized.

[Fledermaus]

Whine, whine, whine. Poor lefty liberals complaining the people they indoctrinated to never care, never read, never learn, hate politics, ignore debate, etc. are apathetic.

Something must have gone wrong with their formula. Those morons were supposed to listen to THEM! But, oh no, our enemies attacked and their programming faltered and their ignorant subjects all of a sudden are being awaken to their individuality like Keanu Reeves coming out of his pod in "The Matrix".

And now they whine and complain these people don't pay enough attention. They don't know anything about policy. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Now the entire left is all angry because most people hear them as they sound...like adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon.

[Stultis]

Conservative and libertarian critics of the the Iraq war do not specifically pick on this one occurrence or this one particular administration.

But you do keep posting screeds from America (and free-liberal civilization) hating, pro-totalitarian leftists (who do focus their invective on "one particular adminstration"). Why's that?

[Stultis]

In view of the evident futility, and worse, of nearly every war the United States has fought during the past century

Hmmm.

Iraq War II: Deposed a fascistic dictatorship, potentially to be replaced by a liberal democracy, or at least a broadly representative government.

Iraq War I: Liberated Kuwait, which is now the only Gulf State with an elected parliament. Although the executive (Emir) is unelected, he has scrupulously followed the constitution, which invests the parliament with real power (e.g. it must approve all decress from the executive, and often votes not to do so).

Afghanistan: Another fascistic, totalitarian system deposed. Also well along to be replaced by representative government. The world bank has estimated growth of 28 percent since the war in this impoverished country. The new military is multi-tribal, multi-ethnic. An important first in a country ravaged by decades of tribal warfare, warlordism and strife.

Panama: Broke up a network that channeled drug money into arms for terroristic regional insurgencies.

Grenada: Replaced a Marixist/Lennist/Militarist dictatorship with democracy.

That's just a few off the top of my head, but it would appear that, by "futility," the author means the expansion of human liberty and the security of free nations.

[Saundra Duffy]

Terrorism is the result of political problems. They can not be solved with the military.

LOL!

[massadvj]

In view of the evident futility, and worse, of nearly every war the United States has fought during the past century...

Given the defeat of Communism and Nazism I find the above statement extremely ludicrous. OK, we've succumed to socialism ourselves, and we have occasionally overreached militarily, but that doesn't put us on a par with Hitler and Stalin.

I am a small l libertarian myself and I have my reservations about the war on terror (on balance, the balance being 9/11, I decided it was just to pursue it). I did oppose Vietnam, Bosnia and Kosovo.

Libertarianism is not the same as pacifism. Libertarianism holds that national defense is a necessary and appropriate function of the federal government, and its only legitimate function beyond the guarantee of fundamental rights.