[rightbanker]

If we want to enjoy a higher standard of living than the rest of the world in a environment where (a) global free trade rules and (b) many highly productive workers in the developing world (like China) CAN"T because of various local factors easily turn their own ever increasing productivity into ever increasing wages, then the ONLY answer is that US workers have to be and become VASTLY more productive than workers elsewhere. Otherwise, jobs will indeed inexorably flow from here to elsewhere.

The main problem is that in the process of becoming vastly more productive than the rest of the world, many unproductive workers will be shed. Some of the "discarded" unproductive workers will find jobs in more productive sectors of the economy. But many will not. It's just a simple fact of life. That's the real reason we need a social safety net at all -- not to support those who "won't work" but to make possible an economy that regularly sheds unproductive modes of work, sometimes leaving in its wake vast dislocation. the social safety net needs to ameoliarate that just enough not to include perverse disincentives to labor.

But the bottom line is that unless and until there are a set of global labor standards and laws that serve to translate productivity gains in places like China or India or Mexico (and on and on) into significantly higher wages for workers in those places, work done here at relatively high wages by less productive workers will flow to where it can be done for lower cost and more productively. There's no way to stop this process except by means that will make everybody worse off in the end.

Think of globalization as involving a great sorting out of who gets to do what work at what cost. Eventually, we'll come out alright, but there will be lots and lots of bumps and bruises along the way. The mistake would be to adopt policies (like tarriffs and other trade barriers) that might appear to smooth out the short term bumps and bruises but would be disasterous in the long run. Better to adopt policies that hastens, rather than delays, the shift to more productive work, including, on one side of the coin, policies that encourage capital formation, trade, and the like and, on the other side, policies that encourage labor mobility, re-training, etc.

[BMiles2112]

Can't say I disagree with anything you said, except the bit about a social safety net. It would be nice to be able to have something to fall back on when the job goes away, but it's not the gov'ts responsibility.

[dogbyte12]

We do have a problem here. Of course there are many factors, but let me just highlight intelligence/ability/skill combined, whatever you want to call it.

We are in a bell curve. Manual labor jobs that can be done elsewhere will be done elsewhere in the new economy. What happens to the people who do not have the intellect to retrain?

I am not talking about retarded people. I am referring to those who made it through high school, with a struggle. Studying for 2 hours at night, when a higher intellect could get by with 15 minutes and perform better.

In a purely capitalistic system, with no safety net, we would just say oh well. The safety net is actually going to be growing larger.

Before, a person who had good values, and was willing to work hard, could support themselves, even if they were this person. They could do assembly line work of varying degrees of complexity. If that goes, you have alot of angry young men, who genuinely have no place at the table. It's a fact.

Even if you agree that we should allow these jobs to go over seas because quite honestly, it can be done cheaper by the same type of guy in a city in China. You still have this unemployed/underemployed guy here.

Some here, think telling these people "to put ice on it" will solve the problem, but I think it will actually be a great crisis.

It isn't just trade here. We already have rudimentary robots that cut grass, and vacuum. In a generation, with Moore's law, you can extrapolate what is going to happen with the lawn/maid services industry. It will be more efficient, and less obtrusive to have machinery doing menial labor, yet the people who have menial labor skills will simply not drop off the face of the earth. What is to be done with them? Seriously.

I am not opposed to immigration. I am a first generation american. My father is a blue collar worker, who will probably lose his Boeing subcontracting job this year or next as Boeing has plans to lay off their US work force and do more work in China.

What do you do with people like this? The tricky problem is democracy. We are a republic, but a democratic republic. A democracy is 2 wolves and 1 chicken deciding what to have for dinner.

If we, who have, do not "make work" for those who don't, they will vote for our money instead. IMHO, this talk about free trade just touches the surface of what the future is about to hold, and I find it grim. The digital divide will become the grand canyon. Unless we bribe the have nots with welfare, health care, etc, we have a problem. We will have a problem paying for all those give outs as well.

What politician has the guts to say that if you aren't a college graduate, chances are that your future is going to be extremely bleak in a generation. If you have an IQ of 85, your ability to produce anything will not be cost efficient and any job you get will be basically charity.

Telemarketing companies may be blowing smoke, but they do believe that 2 million workers in that industry will be layed off when the national DNC list comes into effect. Where will these people go, other than into other service industries, further depressing wages? It is a race to the bottom.

End of long disjointed rant.