To: Bobby777
I'm a fan Of Joe's writing, but in this I must disagree, slightly.
Satan killed Jesus, by manipulating the hearts of Jews and Romans. THAT is essential to understand, because in the unjust killing is contained the seed of our resurrection. Hell could not hold Him for he was innocent. Satan could not succeed in his action because God allows only Justice to finally triumph. We could never accomplish this defeat of injustice since we all deserve to be set away from God's pure Righteousness. But because Jesus defeated the connection of death and sin, we all may be raised with Him by the Grace of God in Christ. 'To all who will accept Him gave He the right to be sons of God.' '... For whom He justified he also glorified ...'
9 posted on
09/15/2003 11:11:05 PM PDT by
MHGinTN
(If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
To: MHGinTN; JohnHuang2
"Satan killed Jesus" ~ MHGinTN
Some ask, "Who killed Christ?"
Do they ask such a question because they are ignorant of what he said on the subject, or because they reject what he said on the subject?
Jesus: "I lay down my life that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from my Father." [John 10:17-18]
Jesus: "You could have no power AT ALL against me unless it had been given to you from above. ..." [John 19:11]
Jesus: "Do you think that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he will provide me with more than twelve legions of angels [so that I wouldn't be delivered to those who plan to crucify me]? [No]... all this must be done so that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled." [Matt.26:53,56]
The atonement that we are considering is a planned atonementthe cross was not an accident. God planned it. He was not sleeping or caught off guard at the cross. He had an unchangeable, immutable plan, and it was being carried out. The apostle Peter preached this as part of his first message:
"Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" (Acts 2:23).
The apostles not only preached it; they prayed it. Hear their prayer in Acts 4:2729:
"For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."
God was the master of ceremonies at the cross.
Jesus also taught that God the Father had an unchangeable, immutable plan and power to execute it:
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me. And this is the Father s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day (John 6:38, 39).
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep (John 10: 11).
I know my sheep. (John 10:14-15)
Jesus makes clear why some do not believe on Him. Have you ever wondered why some do not believe? Well, Jesus answers that question here:
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you (John 10:26).
He describes two characteristics of His sheep:
My sheep hear my voice [a disposition to know His will], and they follow me [a disposition to do His will] (John 10:27).
This truth, that the atonement was for the sheep, is underscored by our Lord s prayer found in John 17. Hear His prayer:
"As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him" (John 17:2). "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine" (John 17:9). "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world" (John 17:24).
This view of the extent of the atonement makes the cross a place of victory, because what the Father planned, the Son purchased, and these He prays for. This is consistent with that great declaration in that messianic prophesy of His coming: "He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities" (Isa. 53:11).
Jesus teaches the same thing in John 6:37:
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me..." Not, maybe they will come, or, it would be nice if they came, or, if they decide they will come, but rather, "shall come." This, then, is an important element of the message of the cross, the message of evangelism. This means that Christ s death was not in vain, but rather, everyone for whom He savingly died, will come. It is interesting to note that when the angel announced His birth to Joseph, the angel was straight on this point: "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21).
Please note the text says, "save his people," not every single individual, but His peoplethe sheep.
God used the fact that He had some people, some sheep, to encourage the evangelizing of that wicked city of Corinth. The great apostle was afraid to go to Corinth, and God encouraged him by saying, ". . .be not afraid... for I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city" (Acts 18:9, 10).
1. His coming was for His people (Matt. 1:21): "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."
2. His purchase on the Cross was for the sheepHis people (John 10:11, 14, 15): "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep... I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep."
3. His prayer was for all that the Father gave Him (John 17:2, 9): "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him... I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."
Is this the message of the cross that you have heard? A Christ whose death is not in vain and will not fail to accomplish all that was intended? Or, have you heard the message of a poor, impotent, pathetic, and sometimes, effeminate Jesus who died just to make salvation possible and who is standing impotently by, waiting to see what these mighty, powerful sinners are going to do with Him?
12 posted on
09/15/2003 11:26:07 PM PDT by
Matchett-PI
(Why do America's enemies desperately want DemocRATS back in power?)
To: MHGinTN
sorry don't agree ... it PLEASED God to crush Him (Jesus) to powder (Isaiah 53, Psalm 22) ... Peter tried to stop Jesus from going to the Cross ... Jesus said to Peter: "Get thee behind me Satan!" ... Satan was defeated at the Cross, not Jesus ...
36 posted on
09/16/2003 7:29:30 AM PDT by
Bobby777
(John 3:17-18, Romans 10:9-10)
To: MHGinTN
Satan killed Jesus, by manipulating the hearts of Jews and Romans. THAT is essential to understand, because in the unjust killing is contained the seed of our resurrection. Hell could not hold Him for he was innocent. Satan could not succeed in his action because God allows only Justice to finally triumph. We could never accomplish this defeat of injustice since we all deserve to be set away from God's pure Righteousness. But because Jesus defeated the connection of death and sin, we all may be raised with Him by the Grace of God in Christ. 'To all who will accept Him gave He the right to be sons of God.' '... For whom He justified he also glorified ...'
I think it has already been mentioned that Jesus wasn't killed, he gave up his life as part of The Father's plan. He indeed burst through the bonds of death when he was resurrected therebye paving the way for all of us to be resurrected. That has nothing to do with how he died, or who gets blamed for it, or whether he was crucified (he wasn't the only one to suffer this way) or he was hung from a tree branch. More important than his death on the cross was his Atonement in The Garden when he prayed to The Father and took on the entire sins of the world. This unimaginable act is the reason we will be saved. This is why we can repent of our sins. Our suffereing in this world could never be what he suffered that night, far beyond any physical pain.
54 posted on
09/17/2003 9:56:27 AM PDT by
EO1TopDawg
(With talent on loan from... er ...RUSH)
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