[TheBigB]

Hello Prof...

Well, your posts did raise my blood pressure, but I will ask a few questions in a civil manner. I respect your coming here, and your overall tone. To address a few of your own statements:

"What I do see is people who are sick of being pushed around by what they perceive as a radical right-wing coup that took over the government and is pushing revolutionary policies through at a furious pace, destroying everything they love about America --tolerance, the rule of law, justice, truth, compassion, civil discourse, etc.

Tolerance. An interesting word. What does it mean? A purely tolerant person would simply accept everything. Why are you not simply tolerating the flags in the classrooms? Because you disagree with it. One of the FREEDOMS we enjoy in America is not to have to tolerate any idea we do not agree with. Now by that I do not mean violence; I mean we have the freedom to speak out against anything we do not wish to accept. Whether one agrees with the idea or not, we can do so. Are you tolerant of rape, murder, etc? Of course not. You are then, by definition, intolerant. I resent the left appropriating this word for themselves...and your own pledge towards academic freedom notwithstanding, I submit that you are guilty of the very thing to say you abhor. You are attempting to stifle ROCK's viewpoints by calling them "intolerant."

justice. Again, what is your definition of the word? Do you mean as in "social justice"...as in, some people have more than others and that's not fair, so we must rectify that by force?

compassion. Again, I ask for your definition of the word. If I wear a red AIDS ribbon, does that mean I'm compassionate, or if I actually come out and say, "you know, not doing drugs or engaging in risky sexual behavior will drastically lower your chances of getting AIDS," am I compassionate or (to use another favorite word of the left) "judgemental?"

civil discourse. This must be the funniest. Civil discourse. The right is destroying civil discourse. Do you include any of these flaming right-wingers in with this dastardly conspiracy?..

...recalling George W. Bush's talk of outreach to black Americans, Representative William Clay of Missouri (D) said that picking Ashcroft resembled "the way that Ku Klux Klan members worked to improve race relations: They, too, reached out to blacks with nooses and burning crosses."

Al Sharpton, who said during the post-election ballot fight in Florida that conservatives wanted to "do the same thing to us" that "Hitler in his wickedness and evil" did to the Jews.

Michelangelo Signorile, the well-known gay writer, who wrote that while Afghanistan "has been protecting Osama bin Laden, Italy has been harboring another omnipotent religious zealot, one who equally condemns us Western sinners and incites violence. . . .. Meet John Paul II, Christian fundamentalist extraordinaire and a man who inspires thugs across the globe . . . ."

The several members of the Hawaii ACLU board of directors who publicly objected to inviting Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to take part in a debate on the grounds that he is "an Antichrist," "a Hitler" -- or "if not Hitler, he is a Goebbels" -- and an "a--hole," and that allowing him to speak would be "like having a serial murderer debate the value of life."

California Attorney General Bill Lockyer (D), who said last summer, in reference to the chairman of Enron Corp., "I would love to personally escort [Kenneth] Lay to an 8-by-10 cell that he could share with a tattooed dude who says, 'Hi, my name is Spike, honey.'"

Actor Alec Baldwin, who openly called for the murder of Congressman Henry Hyde and his family on national TV.

Do any of these ring a bell, Prof? Are these examples of the left's "civil discourse" that the right is attempting to dismantle? But moving on...

They see a group of people like ROCK who are willing to support these radical policies by any means necessary, just as the Brown Shirts supported Hitler early on in his regime by beating up and intimidating opponents, including students and professors with whom they disagreed.

Despicable. The Nazis were evil through and through. They attempted to take over the entire world. They murdered millions of people. These are kids placing flags in classrooms, which make some people (who apparently aren't self-confident enough) "uncomfortable." You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself for these comments. They are not part of any "civil discourse" that I would support. I submit that you are again guilty of that which you purport to abhor...you are attempting to silence other views by linking them, weakly and awkwardly, to the most evil regime the world has ever seen. Shame to you, sir.

I see nothing positive coming out of the polarization on campuses these days, except perhaps for some new organizations like the Progressive Faculty Federation (of which I am a founding member) which are trying to act primarily to defend ourselves against attacks like Shannon Burke's.

What is this organization for? Is there a conservative faculty foundation? Will you be attempting to silence any voices which differ (or "dissent") from the PFF's POV?

You have also characterized some of Mr. Burke's statements as "homophobic" and "racist." Again, these are words that are used by the left to silence any POVs that dissent from them. "Racist" means that belief that one race is genetically superior to another. Did Mr. Burke say this, or that he believed this? I suspect that what you meant to say was, "Mr. Burke said some things I disagree with. He is, therefore, racist." Ditto the above sentiments for the word "homophobic." Is there a sign in your office that says HATE SPEECH IS NOT FREE SPEECH?

And lastly, if you take Paul Krugman as an intellectual mentor, I would suggest you see the following:

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/truthsquad091603.asp

Cheers.

[bmauer]

BigB.

You are a great debater! I will try to address your points. Please recall that in my post I referred to people reacting against the flag because they felt the things I listed below that. I was trying to describe the antipathy towards ROCK's proposal by putting it in context.

You are right to point out the ambiguities in the word "tolerance." I have written about that word and its ambiguities at great length. My point is that we are all "intolerant" of some things, and that society as a whole must be intolerant of certain things in order to function. There are "unassimilable elements" to society that, if left alone, will destroy that society. For instance, I assume that the U.S. has deemd Al-Qaeda an illegal organization and would not let it function openly. I agree with this position.

My view of tolerance (I don't know to what extent it is shared by "the left") is that a society should be as tolerant as possible. When I see a society refuse to accept any self-criticism, that worries me. Then I say that society is intolerant.

I fear that the flag mania expressed here is a way of deflecting legitimate criticism of the direction of U.S. society, and as such it is a form of unacceptable intolerance. My belief is that anyone can display a flag on their private property, but that the classroom is a space that should be free of flags so that we can be free to be critical.

By "justice" I mean a set of abstract principles by which desisions are handed out evenly. If I see that someone goes to jail without trial (as is the case with suspected "terrorists") but that suspected corporate criminaly like Ken Lay get off free, I say that there is injustice.

By "civil discourse" I mean "a space for public dialogue" open to many points of view. You are correct in your criticism of the people you name (although I haven't checked all the quotes myself) if what you say they said is true. But, for instance, at least 30% of the U.S. population was opposed to the war in Iraq, yet only 1-3% of the discourse on television during the war was made available to anti-war viewpoints. And those viewpoints were visciously attacked.

Compassion means following through on commitments to those less fortunate. In the case of Bush, he promised to help New York City rebuild after the terrorist attacks, but then only delivered 55% of what he promised. He also failed to deliver full funding for his "Leave no child behind" program. I would say that failure to live up to one's social commitments shows a lack of compassion.

My. Burke said that nearly all Palestinians may need to be eliminated before there can be peace in the Middle East. I take calls for genocide as a sign of racism. His homophobia is apparent to me whenever I hear his show.

I think that the opposition to flags in classrooms is a sign that the opponents are insecure, legitimately so. They are worried about their future. On the other hand, why do the so-called "patriots" need flags in the classroom if they weren't insecure about being "American" enough?

My reference to ROCK as Brown Shirts may be a bit extreme. They haven't killed anybody. Still, they brought Ann Coutler to campus. Ann Coulter has said that liberals should be killed, and has called for killing and converting Moslems (as a new kind of "crusade"). She has also tried to paint Joe McCarthy, one of the worst demagogues in American history, as a hero. Does she scare me? Yes she does. Could a group of people following Coulter's words carry out mass hate crimes the way the Brown Shirts did? Of course. Who's sure it would never happen here?

I am not attempting to silence anyone's views. And if a conservative faculty group decided to form, they should feel alright to do so.

The PFF is not that radical a group. Our main purpose is to help articulate the University's existing values more clearly, and to point to cases in which the university's behaviors deviate from its declared values.

I think hate speech is a fuzzy concept, but I would say that threats are probably hate speech, as are calls for genocide.

As for the article on Krugman you pointed out, it seems to rely very heavily on the words of Grover Norquist to make its case. I see nothing wrong with that per se, but there are a lot of more balanced voices one could consult with about Krugman.

Best,

Barry