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To: justshutupandtakeit
The divisions within avant-garde movement are worthy of much study. I teach avant-garde history at the graduate level, so I believe I am on firm ground (backed up by much research) when I say that Surrealism departs from Modernism and the Theater of the Absurd significantly.

Cage is not a charlatan, but is in fact one of the most important avant-garde figures in the 20-th century, up there with Duchamp, and Warhol.

I don't know much about Pullman, but I will look into him. You are probably right that he is a significant figure., Stillm I've not heard of "Pullmanism" as I have of "Fordism."

Primitive cultures don't have history in the same way that modern cultures do. Read Hayden White's historiography on this.

Your point about tradition, inclucing Elvis, points to the way tradition works -- through syncretism and hybridity. This notion of "pure tradition" is a fallacy, and it seems to be used often by the Right. The left, on the other hand, in general, seems to embrace hybridity and syncretism (though I make exception s and offer no excuses for fanatics like Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.)

I don't agree with the politically correct movement on campuses. The fact is, howvere, that the P.C. folks, which the Right enjoys bashing so much, are a small and dwindling minority not only on campuses, but in the left generally.

The right has their own version of P.C. thought as well, and a lot of inflexible people who also practice the techniques of shouting down opponents, intimaditing them, etc. I've seen it at demonstrations many times.

163 posted on 09/19/2003 9:15:30 AM PDT by bmauer
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To: bmauer
Perhaps avant-garde is a better lumping of those three concepts.

In twenty years Cage will be forgotten except as an example of the ability of intellectuals to fool themselves. Actually, I don't believe there is much modern music other than Jazz and Rock which will be remembered or considered significant. Warhol I put in the same catagory as Cage. DuChamp created one piece I find interesting but not much else. He is far down the list of modern artists I have any regard for. Certainly I don't appreciate him as much as Kandinsky and the Suprematists or Miro, Klimt, Klee, even Picasso.

It appears to me that culture has collapsed in general in almost every area with few examples of quality. Certainly nothing that can compare to even that of 50 yrs. ago when Faulkner, Stravinsky, Picasso, Shostakovitch were still creating. Now about all that is left is boringly pretentious annoyances. Unfortunately, most people are too intimidated to give their opinions on such things for fear of being considered unsophisticated rubes.

Particularly annoying are the attempts by the concert halls to force modern music down the throats of the audience. Knowing that few in their right minds would attend performances of modern composers, programs are designed which couple music people want to hear with abominations they hate. So, in order to hear the good, one must suffer through the screeches, shrieks and howls which pass as modern compositions.

Pullman was one of the first creators of company towns for his workers and most of the lives of those living there was controlled and monitored by company officials. His intent was benign and intended to help the workers but that sort of thing never stays that way.

Now that conservative groups have taken to the courts the speech codes are being overturned but the shouting down at speeches (not demonstrations) and destruction of newspapers continue. PCers were never anything but a small minority but they imposed their will upon the majorities because most of the latter did not care about politics (look at the number of voters in student government elections) and did not contest the seizure of positions of power by the Leftists. I know how this works because I actually did it. They were able to shout down and control because of their degree of organization and committment to the "Movement."

I see nothing wrong with shouting down and arguing at demonstrations, threats are another matter but those are generally from Leftists. Speeches inside lecture halls are an entirely different matter. There are very few examples of conservatives actually doing such things however. Mostly they are too polite and well-mannered to do that. (Not me but I enjoy a good fight or argument.)
164 posted on 09/19/2003 10:24:05 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree. Bush must be destroyed.)
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