Posted on 09/13/2003 9:38:31 PM PDT by Luke Skyfreeper
OK, you are a Missouri resident planning to carry a concealed weapon under a new law that kicks in next month.
You are in your car, weapon in your breast pocket, ready to defend yourself any place, any time.
That may be what Missouri lawmakers intended when they overrode Gov. Bob Holden's veto of a concealed weapons bill on Thursday, but there will be all sorts of instances in which carriers will have to disarm.
Driving into Kansas? Pull over and put the gun away or risk arrest, because concealed weapons are prohibited there. Same goes for Missouri border states Illinois and Nebraska.
Police in Kansas said Friday that they wouldn't single out Missourians for weapons checks, but they advised motorists to be aware of state and local laws when entering the state.
Stopping at a bar, casino, sports event, school or amusement park in Missouri? Stow the gun. Weapons will be illegal there, as well as at churches, hospitals, voting places and several other locations.
A gun-rights advocate who gives gun safety training even plans to distribute a pocket-sized list of where the guns are not allowed.
Finally, many private businesses and employers in Missouri may choose to ban concealed weapons. All it takes is a sign in the window for visitors or a policy for employees.
Missouri residents can begin applying for gun permits in 30 days. They will be issued by sheriffs' offices after applicants have taken gun training and passed background checks. Kansans are not eligible for permits.
The training, especially in border cities, should include an explanation of where guns cannot be carried, said Kansas City lawyer Kevin Jamison, who is head of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance.
“Yes, it will be a hassle for people who cross back and forth across the state line, at least until Kansas gets a similar law,” Jamison said. “Other places have found a way to live with it and to function.”
Kansas law prohibits carrying a concealed weapon “on one's person,” except on one's own property or in one's business. A person could legally lay the gun on the car seat — or even the dashboard — under Kansas law, but that is strongly discouraged, police said.
Some cities, such as Leawood, Prairie Village and Olathe, have chosen to go beyond state law in restricting guns. In those cities, guns have to be unloaded and stowed out of the reach of the driver and passengers.
Police who stop motorists are always alert to the possibility of a weapon but usually don't ask whether one is being carried unless there is reason to be suspicious, Caster and other officers said Friday.
Caster said he didn't think Missouri motorists would be asked more often about concealed weapons. Olathe Police Sgt. Greg O'Halloran said the weapons law would be “one more piece of information” police might consider.
Some private businesses are debating how to react to the weapons law. UMB Bank, for instance, is weighing whether to post “No Guns” signs in their branches.
UMB spokeswoman Heather Kemper said both options would have ramifications. Not posting a sign could create the possibility that someone would try to stop a bank robbery, endangering customers. But posting a sign would raise the issue of how to enforce it, she said.
Alex Pryor, owner of the downtown Kansas City restaurant Zin, said he did not expect a problem with weapons carriers and would not put up a sign.
“I don't know how a sign is going to alter anybody's conduct,” Pryor said.
Under the law, carriers of concealed weapons are entitled to a clear notice of a weapons ban. A sign at least 11 inches by 14 inches with letters not less than an inch tall must be posted in a conspicuous place.
Jamison said that property owners in other states with concealed weapons laws had found signs to be counterproductive.
“Gun owners avoided those places, and criminals did not,” he said.
Concealed weapons are already prohibited at some recreational attractions, such as Worlds of Fun and Oceans of Fun in Kansas City.
“Worlds of Fun is a place for people to have fun, not to worry about their neighbor toting a gun,” said Security Director Hugh Mills.
Most Missouri businesses do not appear to be alarmed about the concealed weapons law, said Kelly Gillespie, vice president of governmental affairs for the Missouri Chamber of Commerce and Industry. Few people have called about the issue, she said.
Under the law, companies can prohibit employees with weapons permits from carrying weapons at work or in company vehicles.
The Star's Linda Man contributed to this report.
To reach Kevin Murphy, call
(816) 234-4464 or send e-mail to kmurphy@kcstar.com.
To reach Mike Sherry, call
(816) 234-4481 or send e-mail to msherry@kcstar.com.
Better put up those "No Bombs" signs too..
This evening, I went to the drug store to pick up a prescription. "Soon it'll be legal for a licensed citizen to carry a concealed weapon in here," I thought. My mind went over what I would do if I were carrying a firearm in a public store, and an armed robber pulled out a weapon to rob the store.
My instant conclusion was that I would not needlessly risk lives; I would choose whatever course was best to prevent innocent people from getting injured or killed. If it was clear that no one was going to get hurt, I would not risk taking on the criminal. If it was clear that innocent people were about to get killed, then the criminal would be as dead as I could make him.
That's the perspective of someone who hasn't gone through any specific training yet.
Which reminds me of a story I read once about a store clerk, an old man, who was robbed multiple times. Every time, he meekly gave the robbers the money, because he could tell that none of the robbers he had encountered wanted to harm him -- they just wanted/ needed money.
Until one day, the old man met a robber who, he knew, this time, was going to kill him. So he pulled his gun out from under his counter (it had been there during every previous robbery as well) and shot the man dead.
Interestingly, while searching the web for people's experiences with "no concealed weapons" signs, I ran across the following sad story, dated 12/21/1999:
"Several months ago, I approached the owner of a rural grocery store and asked him to remove a decal on his front door which reads "no concealed weapons allowed"; I suggested an alternate sign stating "no firearms except law enforcement and individuals licensed to carry concealed handguns". The owner of said business got very angry with me and told me that NOBODY was going to be allowed to carry a gun in his store.
Last night, four males, two of them pre-adolescents, robbed and shot the store owner and murdered the owner's common-law wife.
I suppose some people can't read the sign or maybe they saw the sign as an invitation to commit criminal mayhem."
Finally, many private businesses and employers in Missouri may choose to ban concealed weapons. All it takes is a sign in the window for visitors or a policy for employees.
I find it amusing that private businesses would be allowed to practice such a plainly discriminatory policy, when discrimination on other bases is prohibited, even on private property such as a sole proprietorship, and the prohibition is ruthlessly enforced.
Double standards, anyone?
Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason:
http://palaceofreason.com
Couldn't agree more. I wonder how hard the St. Louis Post-DisPravda is crying in their beer.
I'll betcha the Star, Post and the rag in Columbia will be all over any story that even hints as someone's abuse of his CCW permit like ugly on an ape before they'll even acknowledge a mugging or carjacking at one the County Malls around St. Louis. Wouldn't want to scare away any potential customers, y'know.
As far as businesses and such putting up signs? Let them. And let their conscience by their guide. This will more than likely be all the rage for about 90 to 120 days. Then the signs will fall away as fast as the leaves in autumn when the stats about hold-ups, armed robbery, carjacking, parking lot muggings and the usual lawlessness of the illegally armed criminal class show a 10 to 1 bias toward the anti-CCW clique.
Want proof? A criminal will note a "Beware of Dog" sign and move on. Think he'll move on when a sign goes up that essentially sez "Law abiding citizens with guns are not welcome here". I think not.
UMB spokeswoman Heather Kemper said both options would have ramifications. Not posting a sign could create the possibility that someone could PREVENT a bank robbery,
UMB spokeswoman Heather Kemper said both options would have ramifications. Not posting a sign could create the possibility that someone could PREVENT a bank robbery,
This was to luke too.
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