America's Hidden Battlefield Toll

Guardian/Observer ^ | 9-14-03 | Jason Burke and Paul Harris

[Prodigal Son]

or perhaps you are looking for the OMG effect of a raw number?

No, I'm not too much into OMG effects.

[Prodigal Son]

Once we do go in there, it will be against the will of the Pakistani Government, unless we can convince the Pakis that it is in their interest to clean up the Tribal Areas of Al Qaeda.

I agree, particularly with the part about having to go in against their will and I say that for one reason- I, personally, doubt that Musharaff could deal with the problem even if he really wanted to. It would be his downfall. The Pakistani military doesn't have a lot of influence in this region of the country that we're talking about here as far as I can tell. I can't see (and admittedly, it might be my own skewed way of looking at it) the Pakistanis working up a lot of fervor to go up there and fight these tribesmen.

What I'm really concerned about is those nukes. I sincerely hope that we have some plan to get in there and snatch those things if things get to a tipping point there or else things could get really ugly, really quickly.

[Alia]

No, it is not shameful. And no one should feel ashamed. This is not like being injured in a car accident or in a terrorist bombing. My own adult child served in Operation Enduring Freedom. My adult child explained it to me. You do not reveal these Injuries (and YOU BET I DOUBT THOSE STATS BY THE GUARDIAN -- besides, is sick call, or blisters on the feet included in these stats?) -- again, these stats are not included, for one simple reason. We are in a war. You provide as little information as possible to your enemies. Hope this helps.

[Alia]

THANK you for your very astute and sharp mind jumping into this thread. Yes, the left has orgasms -- as they do tend to celebrate "death" not "life" as a general rule. But on the other hand, there are some who are so wonderfully taken care of, defended and protected, who do not understand how high the stakes are in war. The soldiers know it. And the soldiers I know don't feel sorry for themselves; and they'd just about bust a gut knowing anyone was giving them a pity party here in the US. They'd rather be thanked; injuries sustained or not in the Line of Honor and Duty.

[risk]

>>>> I hope that we win soon in Iraq, cuz I fear the Rats wil win in 04

We need to take it up a notch. Total war would teach the Iraqis some respect for our force. Shocke and awe wasn't very inspiring.

[Alia]

There are organizations you can join -- a TON of them if you'd like to help. Just go to the DOD sites. I know talk show host "Roger Hedgecock" has a special operation going.

[Pikamax]

by the first paragraph and the source, I knew this was going to be hysterical gibberish from lefty central,

[Alia]

What do you mean? Like, what do you find of particular interest?

[Alia]

Yours: I know a couple of hundred Vietnam vets and the two or three who have problems were nut cases when they went over. I have no idea of the percentage but suspect many of those with problems would have had problems no matter what. 98% of those I know, are normal people today.

You are so right. But when we factor in the nut jobs who are NOT in the military, and really don't like it much; but pretend they care.. why... lol! It makes the idea of a debate rather a sport, no?

[Prodigal Son]

As a little footnote to my last post:

Pakistan helped al-Qaeda set up shop in Afghanistan: US documents

...They nonetheless paint a complex picture of factional rivalry, in which Pakistan had tried to use the Taliban and al-Qaeda to promote its influence in war-torn Afghanistan -- only to eventually lose control over both of them.

"Taliban acceptance and approval of fundamentalist non-Afghans as part of their fighting force were merely an extension of Pakistani policy during the Soviet-Afghan war," said one of the DIA dispatches among US government agencies after the September 11 attacks but before US troops began their operation to root out the Taliban in Afghanistan.

It said Pakistani agents "encouraged, facilitated and often escorted Arabs from the Middle East into Afghanistan." ....

According to the DIA, the camp, target of a US missile strike, was built by Pakistani contractors funded by the Pakistan Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), and protected by a local and influential Jadran tribal leader called Jalalludin.

"However, the real host of the facility was the Pakistani ISI," said one of the documents, which added that this arrangement raised "serious questions" about early ties between bin Laden and Pakistani intelligence.

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I think Pakistan has had a hand in creating a Frankenstein's Monster that they can no longer effectively deal with.

[mikegi]

Well, pardner, I haven't seen you around these parts before. PatrioticCowboy, member "Since Aug 17, 2003".

Hmmmm, "The sad thing is that the Taliban have been coming back strong in Afghanistan. Bush should have focused on them before Iraq". Now, whose ugly mugs did I hear that from before, during, and after the Iraq war???

Oh, a totally unrelated thought just popped into my head. I wonder if the DU trolls will change their strategy from those goofy "Die Republican scum" and sick porno posts and try to ease their way into FR. You know, post things from anti-American leftist newspapers and then remark about how concerned they are about it (while casually throwing out criticism of leftists to gain credibility).

[Alia]

I'm with you! lol. I've been a real hawk watching what has been going on in Afghanistan and Iraq. You know what really disgusts me? People who are hacks for the anti-military effort. The guardian article is one such example; but there are so many others. Like.. military moms against the war. Like this is so like a "spontaneous cookie bake", right? Wrong. Obviously, you've been really paying attention to. The amazing thing is, it is so easy to get at the truth, but some don't want to do the work on their own; no, no.. they just wish to be told what to think, or what to say. While, they talk bad about the military being turned into "droids". Kinda the pot calling the kettle black -- but with a major difference. The military is honorable; comprised of honorable men and women. The hacks, OTOH, have no honor.

[Alia]

Actually, yes. you are so right. It's part of Dean's campaign for organized groupies to do exactly this. I posted the article at FR, with a note: Heads Up! They are on their way!...

[GOP-Pat]

I don't understand how this is liberal drivel.

It's liberal drivel because in my city (population approximately 300,000) we have had around 250 deaths and countless accidents since May 1. This is not to minimize ANY soldier's death, but it's not at all unusual to have that number of deaths in Iraq or any other place for that matter.

Liberals want George Bush to fail so badly that I actually believe they rejoice at every bad thing that happens in Iraq. They want the economy to stay in a rut and they want the wars to fail, just to gain political power. POWER is more important to them than health, security and lives. It's a sad time in America.

[kuma]

Do you mean we as in "US" or we as in the press?

The liberal press certainly is not going to give the opportunity for the injured to tell their stories! In the end that would only garner more support for the military and in the end Bush. They could no longer cry Quagmire every five seconds cause the American people would get ticked off at them for trying to make the military look bad plus the facts from real soldiers/marines/airmen/seamen would spill out all over the place.

Possibly the only news media that would let these stories out is FOX but lately they don't seem too interested either. They even stopped talking about Afghanistan because a memo came down from the top telling them to and even O'Reilly admitted to the memo being real. I would think most Americans would want to hear these things and these stories as well.

[boxerblues]

America's Heroes of Freedom"

,

[Snidely Whiplash]

I think anyone who would spit on a GI needs beaten up badly

Fortunately, the "soldiers spit on" stories are quite apocryphal - there aren't any confirmed incidents of such. There may have been isolated incidents, but it wasn't some sort of phenomenon. Now, the insults and such, those did happen, and were utterly subhuman things to do to men who had already had enough.

Snidely

[PatrioticCowboy]

I have you know that I am a classic Reagan-style Republican.

I am NOT a neo-con, but I intensely and passionately support our nation's fighting men and women.

However, I see that you are trying to create division and controversy.

However, I forgive you, because I am also concerned with the sick tactics of the left.

Can we be friends?

[PatrioticCowboy]

The ROK tactics need introduced to Iraq.

Total war needs carried out against the terrorist scumbags

[RLK]

I want to know how many soldiers have been injured, personally. I don't know why we don't talk about them.

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The seriousness of the situation is being minimized to the American public.