LEADERSHIP: Jessica Lynch and Dirty Rifles

StrategyPage.com ^ | September 13, 2003

[Broadside Joe]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't most solders/marines change the kind of lubricant
they used due to jamming early on?

[Ispy4u]

If a soldiers weapon jams there is only a 1 in 10,000 chance that the defect is not their fault.

The fact that so many weapons in this unit jammed, multiplied by my personal knowledge of how rear echelon units approach combat readiness. I can say that I know for a fact that it was each individuals fault that their weapon did not function properly.

You can be Mad if you want but the facts are the facts and only an uninformed, people magazine reading, DUer would get angry over those facts.

No one is saying that people are dead and it's Lynch's fault, she was most likely unable to fight back due to being unconcious or at least badly injured. But the fact that the unit put up such a sorry, ineffective, reaction to the ambush, unequivocally shows that they and their leaders did not take combat as a serious possibility.

[Ispy4u]

Lubricant is only a stop-gap measure to allow longer times between weapons maintenance.

If the lubricant is causing malfunctions the soldiers and leaders know that they need to take extra steps to prevent problems (if they take the threat seriously).

I guarrantee that front line soldiers, tired, hungry, and dirty, took the time for maintenance even at loss of sleep or chow because they understood that the weapon is their only means of fighting back.

Yes the lubricant is not the best suited for desert combat, but there are ways effective soldiers counter that difficulty.

[jaykay]

Almost all of the 507th's weapons jammed, including Pfc. Patrick Miller's. Miller was possibly the only member of the company who returned fire, and he had to shove rounds into his M-16 one by one.

http://www.militec-1.com/StarsAndStripes.html

Reliability complaints also found fault with the oil soldiers and Marines used to clean their weapons. In the dusty, sandstorm-plagued battlefields of Iraq, weapons became clogged with sand, trapped by the heavy oil, called CLP.

Several Washington Post articles recalling the night the 507th Maintenance Company was ambushed recounted moments when soldiers in the convoy, including Pfc. Jessica Lynch, battled their weapons to continue fighting Iraqi irregular forces. "In the swirling dust, soldiers' rifles jammed," one article reported. "Pfc. Patrick Miller, 23, from suburban Wichita, began shoving rounds into his rifle one at a time, firing single shots at enemies swarming all around."

"We had no working weapons," Sgt. James Riley told The Washington Post. "We couldn't even make a bayonet charge " we would have been mowed down."

The Army's after-action found more soldiers unhappy with CLP. "The sand is as fine as talcum powder," the report stated. "The CLP attracted the sand to the weapon."

If Pfc. Lynch should have been brought up on dereliction of duty charges, so should the rest of her company who's weapons failed. All of the others taken captive received the same medals as her, except for Miller, who received a Silver Star. Those who were killed received postumous Bronze Stars. I know many of you have complained about the devaluation of the Bronze Star, but has it been so devalued that it is now the equivalent of an award for dereliction of duty? Was the lubricant problem her fault?

The Army also failed to provide effective training. Their recent decision to revamp their training is an admission that what they had been doing was not good enough. How do you pin the blame for all of this on Lynch? Did she, a new recruit decide how she and the others were trained?

[jaykay]

Wow, a hopping 'hoppin mad' and 'pitchforks and torches'. You must not have had your second pot of coffee yet.

[Ispy4u]

The army has always provided effective training for weapons maintenance and operation.

The shortfall in this case falls on the individuals and their leaders for failing to effectively use that training.

Any monkey can keep and M-16 clean, you only have to pay attention to it. Something that most rear echelon soldiers don't do. It is obvious that weapons maintenance was not a priority with this unit. It obviously was in front line units, because of the high number of dead Iraqi's.

As I've stated before I don't pin all of this on Lynch. She very well may not have been able to fight back if her weapon did work. But every soldier is responsible for maintaining their individual weapon, and every leader is responsible for ensuring that they do so.

[jaykay]

Ah, most rear echelon soldiers don't take good enough care of their weapons, you say, and apparently their leaders don't make sure they do. And the Army has recently announced plans to improve their training for these rear echelon soldiers, to instill what they call a 'warrior ethos.' So the problem was built in: the non-combat soldiers didn't expect to have to use their weapons and the Army didn't do much, if anything to discourage that attitude. It's too bad it took such a waste of lives to change things, if things actually do change and change permanantly.

[wku man]

Same goes for the three 19D Cav Scouts who were taken POW in Kosovo. Two of the three were NCOs, their Humvees were equipped with GPS and map, radios, an M2 50-cal up top, and each soldier had a -16 and a 9mm sidearm. Still, they managed to get lost and get taken prisoner without firing a shot in their defense.

What happened to them after Jesse Jackass got them sprung on international TV? They all got Bronze Stars and POW Medals. The two moron NCOs should've been court martialed, or at least Article 15'd, and lost some rank and pay over it. Instead we treated them like heroes because their story was on the boob tube. Very, very stupid!

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[Steel Wolf]

What amazes me is that they were in a vehicle convoy, and were still unable to keep their weapons clean enough to function. It's one thing to be beating the bush for days on end and sleeping in the dirt, it's another entirely to have a reasonably covered vehicle to keep your weapon in. Even in a doorless humvee you could keep you weapon covered pretty easily until you needed it. I can't fathom any reason that all their weapons were unusable other than sheer neglect.

That having been said, support and combat arms units are very different. The Army simply does not have the Marine mentality that everyone is a rifleman first. At best they pay lip service to the concept, but the proficiency is just not there. Having spent roughly equal time between combat arms and REMF units, and working with Marines occasionally, the difference is very striking. Marines might be a box of rocks in some respects (hey, I'm not letting the cat out of the bag here, guys) but you won't ever find a Marine unit whose weapons all spontaeously jam. They must be doing something right, and I'd guess that something is basic tactical skills.

It's pretty clear to me that the standard mixed gender basic training I went through didn't prepare me for anything beyond perfoming CTT tasks while mildly annoyed. Even the training in many support units is not nearly what it should be on the tactical side of the house. While I'm sure Lynch and crew knew HOW to clean their weapons, they didn't apprear to have the dire importance attached to it that they should have. This isn't because support units say 'Hey, we'll never be in combat, so this doesn't matter', it's because they aren't trained as well. The spirit is willing, but the training schedule is weak.

I hate speculating about things like this, since I wasn't there, and I can't say for sure. My educated guess is that the Army's 'support echelon' mentality did not force these soldiers to focus on basic tactical skills, and they paid for it dearly. AAR bullets written in blood, hopefully someone takes note.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

If everyone hasn't made their points about Lynch, the blundering 507th, the Army's poor training methods and the effect of women on the military and driven them all the way in by now, they never will.

But it's okay for you to be here, right? LOL

Funny.

You're just going to have to get over it. (And by the way, coming on a thread and flaming people isn't the way to get them to stop posting, if that is your goal.)

[jaykay]

I'm not trying to stop anyone from posting, I'm just wondering what more can be said about this.

[wku man]

I have to agree with Ispy. The Army provides adequate training on how to maintain and use the M-16. If the training were inadequate, and if Break Free CLP were to blame, why didn't we hear of more units (read: non-REMF) where weapons failed en masse? The sand at NTC isn't as fine as that of the Iraqi desert, but my unit didn't have any problems with any weapons jamming there, because we cleaned our equipment whenever we had a down minute. Also, it wasn't just the 507th's M-16s that jammed...their one and only 50-cal failed, too. All this points to extremely poor maintenance, IMHO. The CO should've been brought up on charges for this alone, not to mention for getting lost and not being able to read his dang map and GPS.

The weapons mianitenance training program in place now is fine and dandy...the Army just needs to start holding REMF NCOs' and commanders' feet to the fire, and punishing those who fail to train their troops. It's a very good idea to try to instill a warrior code among REMFs, but that's going to be easier said than done. I spent a year at DLI in Monterey, and was absolutely disgusted at the wimpy, wussy little REMFs who were trying (and failing miserably) to play "real Army". They can't walk the walk, and when they try to talk the talk, it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. It's not just a problem with the new trainees, either...it's deeply entrenched in the career MI NCOs and officers. In order to instill a warrior ethos in the REMF ranks, you'd have to send entire units...commanders, officers, NCO and privates, through Basic all over again, and not some wussed-down REMF Basic, but Infantry or Cav Scout Basic. Again, easier said than done.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[wku man]

"If everyone hasn't made their points about Lynch, the blundering 507th, the Army's poor training methods and the effect of women on the military and driven them all the way in by now, they never will."

True, very true. We've made these points over and over again within the confines of the Free Republic community. These points need to be made and driven home on our society as a whole, but unfortunately, Joe and Jane Sixpack don't care to know the truth...they're too excited about the next incarnation of Joe Millionaire. We FReepers are interested in this stuff, but Mr. and Mrs. Sixpack couldn't care less about it.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[Ispy4u]

You are right that the army did not discourage that attitude. But soldiers are told from day one the things expected of them. It is their leaders who do not enforce it, and they who fail to heed the lesson.

But I cannot imagine what it takes to know you are in a country our forces have invaded, and you see before you the results of battle, yet you do nothing to keep yourself even remotely prepared.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

I'm not trying to stop anyone from posting, I'm just wondering what more can be said about this.

Well, no one is making you read it. LOL

[milemark]

Well, no one is making you read it. LOL

HA, for my part, it's kind of like a wreck on the highway, I just have to take a peek.

[Chief_Joe]

Most of the 507ths weapons jammed...

Almost all of the 507th's weapons jammed...

Adversity on the battlefield is to be expected. A real soldier accounts for the unexpected and has contingencies planned for such events. Ms. Lynch is a soldier in name only. While the others who were attacked with her attempted to take defensive positions and fight in an effort to execute a proper retreat, she did nothing but freeze. They needed her to lay down some fire and to hold off some of the enemy for a while so that they could get situated, and she was actually in a good position to do this from the back seat of the Cut V in which she was riding, but she did nothing but panic and freeze -just like you'd expect a girl to do in such a situation.

[Paratroop]

"If a soldiers weapon jams there is only a 1 in 10,000 chance that the defect is not their fault. "

Clearly you have never been issued a new M4 else you would think differently.

[Ispy4u]

I haven't.

Please explain why I would think differently. From what I've heard the M4 is very reliable, please give me your view.

[CyberCowboy777]

I know nothing of this situation, nor have I ever had to maintain a weapon during a sandstorm (though most others seemed to have done just fine).

I do agree with Chad, she is in the spotlight (her choice or not) and she is going to get the money and the sh!t.