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IBM bundles up with Chinese Linux company (Chicom Government that is)
Ziff Davis Online ^ | 9-11-03 | Stephen Shankland

Posted on 09/11/2003 9:21:17 AM PDT by Golden Eagle

IBM bundles up with Chinese Linux company

By Stephen Shankland

IBM has expanded its geographic ambitions for Linux, signing a deal to bundle a version of its database software with a distributor of the open-source operating system in China.

Under the deal, Red Flag Linux, will bundle DB2 Express with its software for small and medium-sized businesses, the companies said Wednesday.

The agreement comes not long after database leader and IBM rival Oracle said it will certify its software with Red Flag's Linux.

"Given the size of China's economy and the related growth of information technology infrastructure, Red Flag could become the most widely deployed Linux distribution," said Stacey Quandt, an independent Linux analyst. "There are multiple distributions in China, but Red Flag has an advantage in being blessed by the Chinese government."

IBM has other competitors besides Oracle vying for Red Flag's attention. Last week, HP and Red Flag joined to market and develop Linux in China, with HP supporting Red Flag Server 4 software on its Xeon-based ProLiant servers and Itanium-based Integrity servers.

There are several regional Linux specialists, such as Conectiva in Brazil and Turbolinux in Japan, but two companies are seeking a global presence. Leading Linux seller Red Hat and No. 2 SuSE both have extensive support and marketing relationships with most of the top server makers.

Microsoft, which has criticized China for not doing enough to curb software piracy, is trying to court Chinese customers, but Linux has the advantage that its core components are available for free. Microsoft also is trying to allay concerns by letting Chinese officials view Windows' underlying source code, a move that acknowledges one advantage of Linux and its open-source development process.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; ibm; linux
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To: Golden Eagle
I really hate repeating myself, but...

You implied that the fact that the NSA does not certify SE-Linux as a "Trusted Operating System" means that America can't "trust" Linux.

In light of things you went on to say, I must conclude that you are fully aware that an OS that does not meet the specs that would qualify it as a "Trusted Operating System" is not the same thing as an "OS that America cannot trust."

I didn't respond because I wanted debate with you on the finer points of NSA practices. I responded because I am sick to death of the FUD that I see being spread about Linux. It's as if Linux must have been developed by the Commies in yet another dastardly attempt to subvert national security.

The half-truths, FUD, and propaganda spread by the Linux haters on here is in the "just damn," category of ridiculous.
41 posted on 09/11/2003 7:27:52 PM PDT by Joe Pilot
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To: Joe Pilot
"I sure don't see the NSA page for SE-WinXP anywhere."

No need. It's already in use in sensitive systems.

42 posted on 09/11/2003 7:31:56 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (Helping Mexicans invade America is TREASON!)
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To: Joe Pilot
You implied that the fact that the NSA does not certify SE-Linux as a "Trusted Operating System" means that America can't "trust" Linux.

My claim was not the absurd one. The absurd claim was that SE-Linux constituted concrete proof Americans could trust Linux, which was easily discredited.

If you didn't want to debate the finer points of NSA practices, why did you even enter the discussion then. You have offered little more than the original poster who attempted to make the point.

43 posted on 09/11/2003 7:36:18 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Joe Pilot
The half-truths, FUD, and propaganda spread by the Linux haters on here is in the "just damn," category of ridiculous.

I'll make it easy for you, Joe: You can't trust any operating system. Anything connected to a network will fold under attack sooner or later ...
44 posted on 09/11/2003 7:40:45 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Golden Eagle
If you didn't want to debate the finer points of NSA practices, why did you even enter the discussion then.

Oh, come on. I made it quite clear in my previous post why. But look... never mind, OK? I let my emotions get the better of me. I'm not going to change your mind about the evils you perceive in Linux, so I'll go back over here in the lurker's corner, now.

45 posted on 09/11/2003 7:55:40 PM PDT by Joe Pilot
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To: Joe Pilot
No problem, I'm quite accustomed to Linux flybys and blowups.
46 posted on 09/11/2003 8:00:52 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
No problem, I'm quite accustomed to Linux flybys and blowups.

That was a cheap shot. I have been civil with you.

47 posted on 09/11/2003 8:20:18 PM PDT by Joe Pilot
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To: Golden Eagle
...The right to charge China for AIX instead....

...Do you know why the Chinese chose Linux? Because it wasn't American.



Allow me to point out a minor flaw in you reasoning.

First the predominate vendors of Linux are US companies, that is why China decided to develop their own version.

Second, if China does not want to purchace American - we would not be able to sell them AIX anyway.
48 posted on 09/11/2003 8:29:05 PM PDT by taxcontrol (People are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is.)
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To: Joe Pilot
Back already? So which is it now, you lost control of your emotions, or you were civil. Eanie Menie Minie Moe? Sorry, I have just seen a lot of schitzo here lately from Linux posters (i.e. Coral Snake), in addition to the normal flybys and blowups.
49 posted on 09/11/2003 8:35:12 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: taxcontrol
First the predominate vendors of Linux are US companies, that is why China decided to develop their own version.

Exactly why DB2 won't be something they will be willing to fund for long. Our policy should be, if they don't want to buy our proprietary technology, for use in projects we approve in advance, then they can go and build their own independent software tree, on their own. But that independent software tree should not be built with our help, which is what is happening here.

This is not much different than if Boeing had been allowed to help the Soviets with their own airplane designs during the cold war. If they want to buy planes then fine, we'll sell them a few airliners. But you don't give them the base technology so they can go build their own bombers.

50 posted on 09/11/2003 8:43:06 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
Why are you magnling my words? I did not say I lost control of my emotions. I said that I let them get the better of me. There's a difference. I posted out of anger, yes, but never did I resort to the name calling, taunting behavior that you are now displaying.

You do not wear it well.

51 posted on 09/11/2003 8:46:15 PM PDT by Joe Pilot
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To: Golden Eagle
I already said what M$ did was unfortunate. It still does not in any way compare to IBM and HP helping the Chicoms build their own completely independent system.

Here we go again with the Micro$oft double standard: If Gates does it, no problem. Everybody else should be ashamed. Did it ever cross your mind that the M$ anti-competitive (monopolistic) practices are responsible for this entire situation?

52 posted on 09/11/2003 9:06:06 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: Golden Eagle
But that independent software tree should not be built with our help, which is what is happening here.


Again, that is exactly what they are doing. They are taking something available to all (Linux) which by the way, did NOT originate in the US, and modifying it to meet their needs (like the GPL allows).

They are doing this on their own and in compliance with the law. The only thing IBM is trying to do is to get some money out of their efforts by baiting the Red Flag Linux with a crippleware package.

No it may not gather large dollars. But considering that the only efforts that are going into the project are the negotiation team, it stands to make a good rate of return. Maybe only a few million over a decade. But also possibly several billion over that same decade.

Little money and effort goes in, at least a little money comes back, maybe big money. They are already buying our products and paying for our consultants to build there own internal voice and data networks.

Perhaps you think it would be better for the US to say "no way" and have the Chinese buy thier networks from the French or Germans? Spoil the waters so that they wont buy ANY of our products or services?




And as for programing being a commodity - it already is. Out of Israel comes virus and firewall software equal to and sometimes better than anything put out by US companies.

Some of the best web server and load balancing software comes from a UK company. One of the best VOIP PBX vendors, particularly in the H.323 space, is from Germany, another from Canada.

I understand the patriotic desire to beat your chest and say that the best comes from the US, but the skills that make that true are rapidly, and I mean RAPIDLY being developed in other countries.
53 posted on 09/11/2003 9:11:12 PM PDT by taxcontrol (People are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is.)
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To: Joe Pilot
I did not say I lost control of my emotions. I said that I let them get the better of me. There's a difference.

Really? I always thought they were the same. If anything, that's splitting hairs. Either way, it was an emotional problem.

However if you have any good reasons why IBM should be allowed to build up the Chicom goverment software suite, you're welcome to post it. So far, you haven't touched it with a ten foot pole, but instead have been wandering around some SE-Linux issue that actually has no relevance, then claiming you didn't even mean to discuss it either. I really have no idea what your point is, and somehow I doubt I'm fixing to find out.

54 posted on 09/11/2003 9:18:06 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Dataman
If Gates does it, no problem.

Gates did what he did IN RESPONSE to Linux. And what he did was nothing in comparison to what is going on now with these Linux technology transfers. Especially if it is proven that Linux contains stolen US trade secrets from Unix.

55 posted on 09/11/2003 9:25:20 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: taxcontrol
I understand the patriotic desire to beat your chest and say that the best comes from the US, but the skills that make that true are rapidly, and I mean RAPIDLY being developed in other countries.

Technology starved communism will fail against us, just like the USSR did. But this is about IBM selling out and helping them build a Chicom product that will compete directly against our largest tech export, M$. Without the US support of Linux, Red Flag wouldn't stand a chance of keeping up.

56 posted on 09/11/2003 9:33:26 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
Gates did what he did IN RESPONSE to Linux.

That't the old Bill Clinton defense: "Everybody does it."

Let's not kid ourselves. If Linus could do it, the Chinese could too. Just exactly what would we do if China stole and modified Unix? They could do that too. We don't even attend to M$ofts piracy. Why would we bother with China?

57 posted on 09/11/2003 10:03:10 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: Dataman
If Linus could do it, the Chinese could too. Just exactly what would we do if China stole and modified Unix? They could do that too.

Wrong. Neither Linus or the Chinese could be accomplishing what they are without the help of IBM.

58 posted on 09/12/2003 5:18:47 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
Wrong. Neither Linus or the Chinese could be accomplishing what they are without the help of IBM.

Sorry. I don't understand the reasoning process that makes IBM, the busted monopoly, the bad guy and M$, the above-the-law OS Mafia, guiltless.

59 posted on 09/12/2003 6:22:44 AM PDT by Dataman
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To: Dataman
Sorry. I don't understand the reasoning process that makes IBM, the busted monopoly, the bad guy and M$, the above-the-law OS Mafia, guiltless.

I never said M$ wasn't guilty. They have been guilty, of a lot. But nothing like this, M$ isn't over there with China giving them secrets on how to build/interface chips that compete with Intel are they? No, but IBM is sure trying to help the Chicoms build their own software empire, at the expense of our own. That is the difference, in black and white.

60 posted on 09/12/2003 9:37:37 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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