McClintock on H&C(Says He's Still In, Its Early, But Will Back Arnie if Otherwise Cruz Would Win)

hannity & combes | 9/10/03 | Me own ears

[Tamzee]

Give it up LOL

I'm not going to debate with you, I've gone around in circles with you before. You are one of the folks that just brushes aside anything you don't like to hear and just keeps reiterating that Arnold is a "liberal". I can show you a quote where Arnold states clearly that he will tighten the borders to keep out illegals and you select group of folks just flatly insists you don't believe it.

I've got better things to do with my time, darling. The bottom line is that CALIFORNIA has shown repeatedly in the past few elections that they WILL NOT VOTE in the majority for a 100% pro-gun, pro-life, anti-gay candidate.

Educate the voters and increase our numbers of conservatives and THEN we can change the types of candidates we offer them. As a matter of fact, I think Arnold will also prove to be a leg up in that direction and make groups of new voters comfortable with voting Republican.

You are going to disagree, I know... just say so and we're done.

[It's me]

Whoa, whoa there boy. I think you have me mixed up with BibChr. You want to direct your question to him?

[Quix]

THANKS, I'M GLAD SOMEONE ELSE SEES HIM THAT WAY.

I was not expecting it. I was expecting to cheer a fellow conservative who's values I respected and owned.

I was sadly disappointed to read him as--psychologically--PERHAPS--as much a hazard as ZurC Crustyshorts or Gray Sewerwater Davis--power would likely go to his head and result in THIS POLITICAL ANIMAL becoming as arrogant, less than consistent and rational as well as tyrannical as a lot of others.

[sruleoflaw]

It's not over yet. And why can't your boy debate without a script -- or get in the arean with McClintock. Who is going to baby-sit Arnold when he has to face off with John Burton and Herb Wesson? Burton and Wesson will mug the RINO every day -- and he'll love it, BECAUSE he is one of them.

[vbmoneyspender]

Do they have wars over at DU like the wars that occur here? Not saying you are a frequent visitor of DU -- but I am just wondering if the DUers get into the kind of fights that occur here?

[South40]

Never had the pleasure. Alas, I'm probably too intelligent to serve on one. Defense attorneys always prefer idiots, just take a look at the O.J. Criminal trial.

You've never served on a jury yet you claim to have knowledge of them?

You are wrong. The last jury I served on consisted of, in part, a Dr. of Oncology, a community college professor who was also a networking professional, a lawyer, a retired CHP Lieutenant, and myself, a developer/general contractor. Not an idiot in the bunch.

Defense attorneys do not prefer idiots, but it wouldn't matter if they did, as the prosecutors wouldn’t allow it.

There is probably a good reason why you’ve never been selected to serve. But it wasn’t because you are too intelligent.

[Tamzee]

I was sadly disappointed to read him as

I know your background and appreciate that type of perspective... It's disappointing, but good to know. Thank you.

[South40]

It's not over yet. And why can't your boy debate without a script -- or get in the arean with McClintock. Who is going to baby-sit Arnold when he has to face off with John Burton and Herb Wesson? Burton and Wesson will mug the RINO every day -- and he'll love it, BECAUSE he is one of them.

It's been over for TM for some time; Arnold's not my boy; I could care less who's going to baby sit him (you offering?); and if they mug him you'll be happy.

[Tamzee]

Mind if I answer? It's really quite funny that you brought it up LOL

I've seen plenty of arguments over at DU JUST EXACTLY like these. The Greens furious with the moderates who don't want to run an extreme left candidate...The moderates insisting that the public won't accept anyone too far to the left and the hard-lefters accusing the moderates of "having no principles". Of course, you also see the Greens/socialists, etc, accusing the DNC of "abandoning its base".

It's a riot to see it over there and know that type of infighting can help keep Bush in office, but it's mind-boggling to see the exact same script running over here :-(

[Tamzee]

Sorry, should have pinged you for #309

[Concerned]

AMBROSE WROTE: "These RINOs are shocked that someone isn't willing to sell principles down the river as quickly as they are."

I am about as conservative as someone can get. HOWEVER, the recall election is basically like a GENERAL election, and as such, I am convinced that the Republican with the BEST CHANCE to win is the one to vote for. In this case, that is Arnold.

Unfortunately, I put aside my Pro-Life position several years ago when I voted and worked for Perot in the Primary and GENERAL elections. If given the chance to vote again, I would NOT do it again.

My philosophy regarding Primaries and General elections is now that it is MY job [and ALL activists] to work like CRAZY to have MY [their] favorite candidate win in the PRIMARY.

But if MY [their] candidate does NOT win the PRIMARY, then I have FAILED to do MY [their] job as an activist and need to support the REPUBLICAN PARTY NOMINEE.

BOTTOM LINE: If I FAIL to get the PRIMARY votes for MY candidate, then I MUST NOT throw away the opportunity to have a REPUBLICAN in the position, even if he/she is not as conservative as I am.

Texas USED to be a RAT state---until Republican Bill Clements won the Governorship and became the FIRST Republican Governor of Texas in OVER 100 YEARS! Now, Texas is a REPUBLICAN state. Sometimes, it just takes TIME to get EVERYTHING we want!

Arnold has NAME ID and IS conservative on SOME issues. Unfortunately, he is not Pro-Life...but then, neither was I until 1974!!!

People can CHANGE their Anti-Life views when shown the FACTS...I did! So can he.

[Kevin Curry]

Defense attorneys spike the most intelligent prospective jurors at first opportunity--unless they perceive a deeply -held bias that will favor their client. But they will not allow a highly intelligent, discerning, independent-minded juror to be seated if they can at all avoid it.

Been there, seen that. I call your bluff.

[vbmoneyspender]

Actually, I was hoping that it wasn't like here. I view it as being a healthy sign for conservatism in the U.S. when not everyone is in lockstep on every issue.

[Quix]

Thanks much. Just saw replay of him on Fox.

Hard to put it into words . . . but there seems to be a kind of smug, condescending something about him that is just plain disturbing. A clear undercurrent.

It's a paradox . . . supposedly here we have Tom M purporting to be a straightforward conservative . . . coming across as a smug, coy, hiding political animal with his true inner person and motives more hidden than blatantly clear.

And then we have Arnold who, given his acting career, might understandably come across as exceedingly slick and polished but instead comes off as very human, candid, straightforward.

Interesting, disturbing paradox.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

McClintock's fighting hard to win, its early, this is why we have campaigns, so he'll keep on campaigning, BUT if it is clear that Bustamante is going to win unless he endorses Arnold, then he'll endorse Arnold.

NOW the game is truly afoot.

Tom McClintock has performed the one act of "Political Charity" genuinely required of a Registered Party-Man Republican -- he has committed to support the most-electable Republican Candidate on Election Day. He obviously hopes that Man will be himself, and he is going to work hard for it, but at the end of Election Day he does want someone other than Bustamante in the Governor's office.

Not being a Californian (and thus, relatively apathetic towards the CA Recall), I have stated my position before -- if someone is comfortable with losing anyway, he should make the "most principled statement" he can with his single vote. In my case, if I lived in California and believed that McClintock was going to lose anyway, I wouldn't bother voting for McClintock -- I would make the "most principled statement" I could by voting for CONSTITUTION PARTY candidate Diane Templin (American Independent).

After all, in the last statewide California Election, the Constitution Party candidate (Templin) received over 170,000 votes -- in Third Party terms, that's huge. If one is going to lose anyway, why not at least pump up the vote totals of the ultra-ProLife, ultra-GunRights, ultra-FreeMarket Constitution Party??

But if McClintock's statement has been reported accurately, he has just changed that calculus. Aside from the fact that some of the Absentee Ballots for McClintock will be "lost" if he bows out, this is a politically-brilliant move on McClintock's part -- instead of being the "Conservative Loser" (in which case, why not vote Constitution?) he has, in effect, declared his Party Loyalty to the GOP.... and effectively turned this into a GOP Primary for the next three weeks by promising to endorse the most-electable Republican immediately prior to Election Day (which, he hopes, is himself).

Very smart move on Tom's part, IMHO. By deciding that he is not going to "take his ball and run away" if it becomes obvious that he cannot win, he has (in essence) given "victory-minded" Republicans a reason to support his Campaign -- by promising to support Schwarzeneggar against Bustamante, if it comes down to that. But only if it comes down to that. He has thrown down the gauntlet to the Schwarzeneggar campaign -- "You can have my support if you gain it the old-fashioned way... Earn It".

What needs to happen now... Well, let me first state the obvious -- McClintock cannot Win the Election with 12%. Ain't gonna happen; you might as well vote Constitution. McClintock must, he must, gain a minimum of 6% a week in the Polls of "Certain and Likely Voters" for the next three weeks, solid (7% would be better -- at least 1% a day). There is no way this Election is winnable with anything less than a 30% Plurality as a baseline. Bustamante already has 30% on the Left. Arnold already has 30% in the Center. McClintock must have 30% on the Right to have even a chance (and then he must pray for rain to create low turnout among the Center-Left swing vote).

• If McClintock cannot do that, then if he claims to be a "Republican Party Man", he must throw his support to Schwarzeneggar to remain true to his Word and his chosen Party (since I myself am NOT a Registered Party-Man Republican, I don't have to worry about these things -- I'd just vote pro-life Libertarian or Constitution; but I respect McClintock's partisan desire to see a GOP man in the CA governor's mansion).
• But if McClintock can do that -- gain around 1% per day, every day, for the next three weeks -- then Schwarzeneggar, if HE claims to be a "Republican Party Man", MUST throw his support to McClintock.

Sorry to repeat myself, but I gotta say again -- politically brilliant. McClintock has just "mended fences" with the GOP and "thrown down the gauntlet" to Schwarzeneggar at the same time. WOW-ZAH!!

Now that's Politics, baby. All of a sudden, even I am starting to get interested in this little State Election on the other side of the Continent.

The game... is afoot.

[Tamzee]

Me, too... even the GOP platform states that it values different viewpoints within the Party :-)

It's just disconcerting to see the same struggle between the left and moderate and pragmatic groups in the Dems as we have happening here... verbatim LOL

[Axenolith]

I was on a Jury in Contra Costa County and the panel was assuredly NOT idiots. I am a geologist. We had 3 ex Police and a granny who had kicked an armed guys ass who was trying to kidnap her and her child when she was younger (and kick it she did, beat his ass, took his gun and shot him 3 times with it).

The trial was 2 defendants up for 5 counts of attempted murder with great bodily injury and gang, handgun, and street terrorism enhancements (going down meant getting ALL 3 strikes in that one trial).

Afterward I was talking with the prosecutor and one of the defense attorneys. They both agreed that the defense wished to get a jury that wouldn't get along while the prosecutor wanted one that LOOKED like that, but actually did get along. It was quite an eye opening experience and the trial lasted for a month.

[BonnieJ]

I was quite impressed with Arnold and his interview with Bill O'Reilly. Then that idiot Dick Morris came on & ripped it all apart, predicted gloom & doom as he is doing lately for Pres. Bush. Who listens to Dick Morris, he is almost always wrong but he never acknowledges that fact. Bill O'Reilly bet him Arnold would win. Arnold was personable and had good answers. I am not so impressed with McClintock and can't figure out this sudden following but it really isn't that big, even though he claims it is.

All the media, including Fox, is choosing to go with the Field Poll, with Arnold 5 points behind Bustamonte. They ignore the others. It's strange they don't cover them all.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"You've never served on a jury yet you claim to have knowledge of them?"

Yes.

"You are wrong. The last jury I served on consisted of, in part, a Dr. of Oncology, a community college professor who was also a networking professional, a lawyer, a retired CHP Lieutenant, and myself, a developer/general contractor. Not an idiot in the bunch."

And what was the nature of the trial in question ?

"Defense attorneys do not prefer idiots, but it wouldn't matter if they did, as the prosecutors wouldn’t allow it."

Shall I say, they prefer "gullible" idiots. I didn't say the prosecutors like it.

"There is probably a good reason why you’ve never been selected to serve. But it wasn’t because you are too intelligent."

Now, now. That sounds like a personal insult. You know those aren't tolerated on FR, don't you ? :-)

[Tamzee]

Could he just have been on the stiff and unnatural side, speaking on camera with a huge TV audience? I've done so myself a couple of times, can't imagine what impression I gave off the first time (barely able to think coherently, must less speak well LOL) Or is this wishful thinking on my part?

I really would LOVE to see him run for U.S. Senate when this is all said and done... would you be comfortable with that given your impression of him so far?