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To: ultima ratio
By the way, Morris never denounced his earlier works as you say

Lie. From "Peace? No Chance," by Benny Morris (Gamla.org, 2/23/02):

1.) "What appears to have stayed the hands of President Hafez Assad and subsequently his son and successor, Bashar Assad, was not quibbles about a few hundred yards here or there but a basic refusal to make peace with the Jewish state."

This flatly and directly contradicts what he wrote in The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem. Grownups (and honest debaters) routinely refer to this sort of thing -- restating an earlier argument contra to your previously held position -- as refuting one's original stance. But you knew this, of course.

2.) "After Husseini came Arafat, another implacable nationalist and inveterate liar, trusted by no Arab, Israeli or American leader (though there appear to be many Europeans who are taken in)."

This flatly and directly contradicts Morris' earlier estimation of Arafat in The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee problem. Grownups (and honest debaters) routinely refer to this sort of thing -- restating an earlier argument contra to your previously held position -- as refuting one's original stance. But you knew this, of course.

3.) "The Palestinian Authority (PA) has emerged as a virtual kingdom of mendacity, where every official, from President Arafat down, spends his days lying to a succession of western journalists. The reporters routinely give the lies credence equal to or greater than what they hear from straight, or far less mendacious, Israeli officials. One day Arafat charges that the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) uses uranium-tipped shells against Palestinian civilians. The next day it's poison gas. Then, for lack of independent corroboration, the charges simply vanish - and the Palestinians go on to the next lie, again garnering headlines in western and Arab newspapers. Daily, Palestinian officials bewail Israeli "massacres" and "bombings" of Palestinian civilians - when in fact there have been no massacres and the bombings have invariably been directed at empty PA buildings."

This, of course, is in direct, screaming contradiction to Morris' own earlier conclusions, in The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem; hell, it completely cancels out the earlier work, by replacing the failed and inaccurate base assumption (i.e., "Evil Jews") with one actually grounded in verifiable history and events (i.e., Arabs Attempting To Annihilate All Jews, All the Time"). Grownups (and honest debaters) routinely refer to this sort of thing -- restating an earlier argument contra to your previously held position -- as refuting one's original stance. But you knew this, of course.

4.) "But whatever my findings, we are now 50 years on - and Israel exists. Like every people, the Jews deserve a state, and justice will not be served by throwing them into the sea. And if the refugees are allowed back, there will be godawful chaos and, in the end, no Israel."

Most shriekingly obvious of all -- and the least gainsayable by you, no matter how desperately, devoutly you (clearly) wish it otherwise: the clear and unequivocal statement that there can e no "Right of Return" is a DIRECT SELF-REFUTATION of Morris' own earlier, publicly-held position on this matter... and not all the spinning and spluttering on your part will ever change that; a fact you must endeavor to incorporate and live with, as best you (ultimately) can.

Grownups (and honest debaters) routinely refer to this sort of thing -- restating an earlier argument contra to your previously held position -- as refuting one's original stance.

But you knew this, of course.

124 posted on 09/09/2003 9:09:41 AM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("The Clintons have damaged our country. They have done it together, in unison." -- Peggy Noonan)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
Oh, come on--how does this refute Morris' own works? Of course Assad would not make peace and Arafat is a liar--I believe this also. But these characterizations don't add up to a refutation of his scholarship regarding what happened back in 1948. Scholars are continually adjusting their estimates of contemporary historical figures--so what? Such fine-tuning still can't make the lack of any actual documentation of widespread Arab orders for an exodus real. No such documentation exists. That is what is so significant. If it did exist, Israel would have produced it from its archives. The BBC would have found it in theirs. Other monitoring bodies would have also presented the evidence. But no such proof is available because it doesn't exist. The evidence is all to the contrary.
126 posted on 09/09/2003 9:37:07 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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