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Pat Robertson interview on Road Map, Jerusalem [full interview here]
IMRA ^ | Friday, September 5, 2003 | Michael Freund - The Jerusalem Post

Posted on 09/06/2003 9:29:08 PM PDT by yonif

When US Televangelist Pat Robertson talks, millions of Americans listen. In a wide-ranging interview with Michael Freund, the US Christian leader warns George W. Bush against dividing the Land of Israel and creating a Palestinian state

Driving along a verdant stretch of road near Virginia's popular beaches, it is hard to imagine anything in this pleasant and tranquil area stirring up controversy nationwide. The pastoral and well-tended lawns of Regent University, home to the Rev. Dr. Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network, seem far-removed from the harsh media criticism which, from time to time, follows some of his remarks on his daily television broadcasts.

Recently, Robertson found himself at the center of a storm after he called upon his followers to pray that three liberal justices of the US Supreme Court be influenced from Above to retire, thereby clearing the way for US President George W. Bush to appoint social conservatives in their place.

The 73-year old former Republican Presidential candidate and leading Christian televangelist also came under fire for criticizing US policy toward Liberia. Robertson had repeatedly suggested that America should have stood by Charles Taylor, the country's now-ousted president who has been indicted for war crimes, because he is "a fine Christian".

But despite the tumult, Robertson and his Christian evangelical operation are still going strong. His influence extends far beyond the confines of northern Virginia, thanks in no small measure to the global television network that CBN has become since he founded it over four decades ago. Its news and religious programming now reaches 180 countries in 71 languages, and is viewed by over 1 million Americans daily.

In the past two decades, Robertson's followers have become a prominent force in domestic US politics, pushing an agenda that is unabashedly conservative and self-confident. Though his forthright and controversial views may get him into hot water occasionally, Robertson does not shy away from speaking out on issues that concern him.

Interviewed in his office, Robertson was especially keen to discuss an issue that has been on his mind a lot as of late: the US-backed road map and how it will affect the future of Israel. Though a staunch conservative, Robertson does not mince words when it comes to criticizing US President George W. Bush over his desire to establish a Palestinian state and divide the land of Israel. As far as Robertson is concerned, Bush is playing with fire, and making what he considers to be "a terrible mistake". Following are excerpts from the interview:

The Jerusalem Post: Over the past 2000 years, the Jewish people suffered terribly as a result of persecution by Christians. Yet nowadays, some of Israel's most vocal supporters, particularly in the US, are Christians. Are we witnessing some kind of change in Jewish-Christian relations?

Dr. Robertson: I am not sure the change is as dramatic as you think, it is just that now it is being noticed. My mother years and years ago always told us to bless the Jews and pray for the peace of Jerusalem. My father at the time was a senior US Senator and she would write messages that he would deliver to a group of senators who would gather together to pray and read the Bible, and she was always very pro-Israel in those days. There is a repository of that kind of feeling, of great warmth towards Israel and Jewish people.

Q: How do you explain that? Many Jews find that hard to believe.

A: The first thing that we have to realize is that evangelical Christians take the Bible very seriously, so the Old Testament figures, who were all Jewish, are to them their heroes in faith. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron. The prophets. David. All these people are preached about, talked about, and discussed and become part of our evangelical culture. The other point that we have to keep in mind is that Jesus was Jewish, and all of the early apostles were Jews. There was a distortion of that fact in the Middle Ages, when the Catholic Church got rather extreme against the Jews, and Martin Luther did the same thing in the early days of the Reformation. But in terms of American evangelical Christianity we take it very seriously.

Q: Some observers have argued that behind this support for Israel lies an ulterior motive, a desire to convert Jews, to entice them to become Christians. Shouldn't Jews be concerned?

A: I really don't think so. Our organization, on an annual basis, has about 38 million people make decisions to accept belief in Jesus. 38 million. If that's the case, it would be a little silly to say, 'well you are spending all your time trying to entice a few thousand Jews to become Christians'. But I think there is a bond of kinship that has no ulterior motive at all. As a matter of fact, it is sometimes costly. It isn't easy for a person like me to be allied with Israel as closely as I am, because I have death threats from certain Muslim extremists, so this kind of thing puts you in risk of your life.

Q: You mentioned the Bible. Now, the Bible states that G-d gave the land of Israel to the people of Israel as their eternal inheritance. But George W. Bush is trying to divide the land of Israel and create a Palestinian state. Do you think he is defying the Divine will?

A: I don't think there is any question about it. I think he has made a terrible mistake. You know the prophet Joel speaks about those "who divided my land", that there is a curse on them. I think I would walk very, very softly if I were George Bush in this regard. I think he has been talked into this by the US State Department, by the European Community, by the Arabs, to take away Judea and Samaria, or what amounts to the Jewish homeland. I think he is making a terrible mistake. The crux will be when he tries to divide Jerusalem, because Yasser Arafat is not going to give up until he gets east Jerusalem as his capital, as that is a symbolic thing for the Arabs. If Bush is responsible for the partition of Jerusalem, he will be defying a prophecy of Jesus that is very dear to all of us. I think he's going to incur the wrath of the L-rd if he does that. I hope he doesn't, but there is certainly a lot of talk about it.

Q: If Bush presses ahead with the road map and compels Israel to divide the land, do you think that American Christians in 2004 should take that into consideration when deciding whom to vote for?

A: I think they will, but the problem is that the election is between two people. It isn't George Bush versus perfection, it is George Bush versus a liberal Democrat and the chances are that the liberal Democrat is as bad or worse on Israel than he is, and will be worse on a whole lot of other issues than he is. And so, in terms of the election in 2004, I don't think his moving ahead with this road map is going to cost him any votes. It may cost him favor with the King of Kings, but not necessarily with the electorate. But if he moves against Jerusalem, if he tries to partition Jerusalem, then I think Christian leaders across the country will rise up and speak out very forcefully against him, and it could hurt him in a close election.

Q: As a Christian, how do you feel about the fact that Israel turned over Bethlehem with all of its important Christian shrines to Palestinian control?

A: I was in Norway when Shimon Peres was there, working on those Oslo Accords. I wasn't aware of the momentous nature of what was being done, but I think Oslo was a tragic mistake. And I think Ehud Barak gave away the farm. He made concessions that were undreamed of, yet Arafat spit in his face and started the intifada. I think it was a terrible thing to give up not only Bethlehem, but Joseph's Tomb in Shechem (Nablus), Hebron and some of these cities which played such a large role in the early formation of Israel. To give them up to Yasser Arafat is unthinkable. Barak tried to do it, and I think he did so under the pressure of Bill Clinton and it was a mistake.

Q: In your opinion, is the roadmap merely another reincarnation of Oslo?

A: I think so. I think this road map is ill conceived, and I don't think it is going to survive. Just look what happened with Hamas and Fatah, Yasser Arafat's private little army, they are continuing to operate against Israel, as is Islamic Jihad. And recently, Hizbullah has been stirring up trouble in southern Lebanon and shelling Kiryat Shemona. I think there is only one way to deal with the situation - you guys have to go in and take over that territory. Establish martial law, disband the Palestinian Authority, begin to reeducate the children and take over the television and the radio so the propaganda stops. Then, over a period of years, see if Palestinians of good will can be put in office -people who can understand the situation. Because as long as Yasser Arafat is there, there is not going to be any peace. He is a terrorist. All he knows is killing. The Palestinian Authority has never built anything, they have failed to establish any economic infrastructure, they haven't provided jobs, they have wasted money, there has been theft and corruption and there has been oppression and torture of those who disagree with them. I mean, it's a terrorist state. How can Israel enter into partnership with people like that?

Q: Why do you think Israel has refrained from dismantling the Palestinian Authority?

A: The United States has held Israel back from doing what was needed. What was needed is to go in, like we went in to Afghanistan. They needed to go in and flush out this nest of terrorists and do the job completely. Not just a few little tanks surrounding Yasser Arafat's headquarters and all that nonsense. They need to get in there and clean up. That takes force, and it takes resolute courage and it also takes the cooperation of the United States. Unfortunately, they don't have that. The US holds them back from doing what they need to do.

Q: In recent years, there have been reports about the persecution of Christians living in areas under Palestinian control. Are you concerned about that?

A: Oh, yes. We have interviewed people on our television station, those who have been tortured, those who have gone underground for fear of their lives and for fear of being captured by the Palestinian Authority. There is no question that the Christians have suffered terrible persecution. Bethlehem was essentially a Christian town. To the best of my knowledge, that whole area has been cleansed of its Christian population. I don't know if they have been killed, resettled or forced to move abroad. I don't know where they have all gone, but now the population is essentially Muslim and it didn 't used to be that way. So that is just one example of the type of persecution that has been going on against Christians.

Q: Do you think Israel does a good job making its case to the American public?

A: (Laughs) It does a terrible job. They have the worst public relations of anything I can conceive of. They have got the truth but they have just such a hard time communicating it.

Q: There have been a number of reports in recent months highlighting the Christian right and its growing influence in the Republican party and the White House. How much influence do they wield?

A: I ran for President in 1988, and in the process I trained up to 300,000 people in precinct politics. When I got through, I organized the Christian Coalition and these people served as the cadre for the organization. I think over the years this group has been extremely effective in having an influence in the Republican party, particularly in terms of framing issues and supporting candidates. We had a goal of doing a certain number of things, and at the end of ten years, we had completed most of those things. The last goal was to have a born-again Christian in the White House and we have one. We have born-again Christians in charge of the Congress. We have a born-again Christian in charge of the Justice Department, we have born-again Christians throughout government and they have an impact. But in terms of really influencing the nation, I think the big networks, the big newspapers, the New York Times, the Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, the Los Angeles Times, they are the ones that really have the influence. I think they are probably the dominant voices in our society. But I think evangelical Christians now have a significant voice, which is what I had hoped to see happen.

Q: Have you thought of running for President again?

A: I am too old, too tired and too smart to try something like that again.

Q: You have come under criticism on a number of occasions, most recently regarding the US Supreme Court and your call to replace some of its justices. What do you think the role of religion and religious leaders should be in a democracy?

A: I don't think the organized Church should dominate government policy and force a particular point of view onto the lives of individual people. That is what we have been charged with, but I don't believe that should be the case. But on the other hand I think it is appropriate to speak out against injustice. In terms of the Supreme Court, I regard the capture of our constitution by 5 non-elected people as being a form of tyranny. We are 270 million people, and 5 un-elected officials determine our morals and what we are going to do, when our children can pray, whether they can read the Bible, or whether they can read the Ten Commandments. The Constitution never intended for the Supreme Court to have this kind of power.

Q: How should America deal with countries such as Saudi Arabia, particularly in light of all the recent revelations regarding Saudi complicity in September 11 and their sponsorship of terror?

A: I think it is time that the cozy relationship between the leadership of our nation and the banking and oil interests has got to stop. We have got to recognize that the Wahhabis are vicious. We must tell the Saudis we are not going to stand for this anymore. You are exporting terror, you are funding terror, and you cannot do this anymore. We are protecting you, and we are not going to continue protecting you with our military umbrella if you are continuously undermining Israel, undermining other regimes around the world and trying to export this fanatical brand of Islam. You've just got to stop it. They are here operating in the United States, they are operating in Africa, in the Middle East, and they are trying to undermine Russia, as the Chechens are connected with that Wahhabi group. I mean it is a very dangerous thing and I think that we have to deal with it forcefully but so far there is nobody in our government that has got the will to do that.

Q: How can American citizens, particularly American Christians, support Israel in this difficult time? What would you suggest that they do on behalf of Israel?

A: The best thing is to discuss the legitimacy of Israel, the legitimacy of Israel's claims to the land on a Biblical basis. I think that for the American Christians, and for Israel itself, the strongest claim to integrity rests strongly in the Bible. The Land was given by G-d. It was won by conquest maybe around 1200 BCE. We are talking about a long history. I think we need to emphasize that these people [the Jews] are the Chosen People and that there is a prophetic significance in what is happening. These are our friends and we need to support them, especially Israel, as the only island of democracy in the whole Middle East. I think Christians need to speak out and I am not sure they are.

Q: What about prayer?

A: That goes without saying. The Bible says, "pray for the peace of Jerusalem". That is what I was taught as a little boy and we need to pray that G-d will bless His people, and that the Jewish people will be bless-able. But there is much of that which goes on. There is prayer and there is interest and there is love and there is concern but I think they have got to speak out. There is a terrible wave of anti-Semitism going around right now among the left and the Jews themselves must come together. There are many Jews who haven't made up their mind. There are many Jews in America who think Israel is a militaristic aggressor, I'm sure you know that. Jewish society needs to come together. Perhaps in Israel it is the same thing. I'm sure there is a debate going on there now, like "let's get out of this territory, lets give the Palestinians everything they want, lets just give them the whole thing so that we can have peace, peace at any cost." It is tragic. Patrick Henry said "Is life so dear and peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" And the only answer to that is: "Forbid it, Al-mighty G-d!" That is what he said. And I think that life isn't that dear and peace isn't that sweet. But it is hard to convince people of that in today's world.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bible; jerusalem; paterrorregime; roadmap; robertson; suicide

1 posted on 09/06/2003 9:29:10 PM PDT by yonif
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To: SJackson; Yehuda; Nachum; Paved Paradise; Mr. Mojo; Thinkin' Gal; Bobby777; adam_az; Alouette; ...
Q: Why do you think Israel has refrained from dismantling the Palestinian
Authority?

A: The United States has held Israel back from doing what was needed. What
was needed is to go in, like we went in to Afghanistan. They needed to go in
and flush out this nest of terrorists and do the job completely. Not just a
few little tanks surrounding Yasser Arafat's headquarters and all that
nonsense. They need to get in there and clean up. That takes force, and it
takes resolute courage and it also takes the cooperation of the United
States. Unfortunately, they don't have that. The US holds them back from
doing what they need to do.
2 posted on 09/06/2003 9:30:06 PM PDT by yonif ("If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem, Let My Right Hand Wither" - Psalms 137:5)
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To: yonif
The US holds them back from doing what they need to do.

What praytell is that? Pat wasn't asked, and he didn't say. But I have a guess, and it won't work. JMO.

3 posted on 09/06/2003 9:32:05 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
The only rational thing he's saying here is that Israel shouldn't be divided; the rest is superstitious pandering. But I have some suggestions of what Israel could do that it hasn't; maybe some of them go too far, but isn't it the United States that is restraining much of their descision making? I realize thay have an active left.

First, they could kill Arafat on CNN with lots of fanfare. Then they could destroy every terrorist ("militant" in CNN speak) enclave in the Palestinian areas. Destroy the terrorist offices in Syria, as well as the camps in Lebanon. They could also bar Palistinians from entering Israel for day labor. They could also announce a counterstrike policy on civilian territory for every suicide attack. And last but not least, they could finish the fence.

Maybe some of this isn't feasible. But would you continue supporting the roadmap?
4 posted on 09/06/2003 9:43:32 PM PDT by risk
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To: risk
I thought the roadmap had about a 10% chance of success. What I favored, and do favor, is Isreal continue to build the Wall with vigor and dispatch, largely truncating morement into Israel across the Wall, and Israel adopting economic policies that relied on commerce elsewhere than across the Wall, surrounding the West Bank via the Wall and empty zone to control what went in and out, abandoning all settlements beyond the Wall, and stating that unless and until the effective Bantustan demonstrated itself capable of establishing civil order and the rule of law, and controlling its internal terrorists, that it would remain a Bantustan.

If and when that criteria were met, by the all intents and purposes Bantustan, then the path via the roadmap could recommence.

There will be no settlement as long as the militant Palestinians think the status quo deadlock serves their long term interests of the slow economic and demographic degradation of Isreal. Israel must reverse the equation, and demonstrate that time is on the side of the slow economic strangulation of the Bantustan, without seeming to act, or acting irredentist impules, per some Biblical, or more importantly, impracticable lunacy, which if it were attempted to be carried out, would make the 1956 Suez affair slapdown of Israel seem like child's play.

That is my opinion.

5 posted on 09/06/2003 9:55:02 PM PDT by Torie
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To: risk
Rush talks about this. He says there won't be peace until one side or the other wins.
6 posted on 09/06/2003 9:56:00 PM PDT by I still care
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To: yonif
I saw this interview and applauded all the way! He expounded the beliefs of Christian Evangelicals everywhere.

You GO, Israel! As I wrote in an editorial to the Jerusalem Post, "Ignore our hypocracy Israel. (sarcasm) Understand that the American people are behind you no matter what our government says."
7 posted on 09/06/2003 9:56:54 PM PDT by ETERNAL WARMING
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To: yonif
BUMP
8 posted on 09/06/2003 9:59:11 PM PDT by GrandMoM ("What is impossible with men is possible with GOD -Luke 18:27)
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
Jerusalem belongs to Jesus. Israel is a mistake, but the Palestinians and the Muslims are evil -- they all need to come to Christ, the Prince of Real Peace.

9 posted on 09/06/2003 10:45:22 PM PDT by Simi Valley Tom (Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.)
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To: Torie
What I favored, and do favor, is Isreal continue to build the Wall with vigor and dispatch, largely truncating morement into Israel across the Wall,...

Agreed, and I don't consider this a division in the sense of creating a new state of Palestine. I don't have a long-term objection to such a "division," but as you say, we have no evidence that such a state would be in Israel's interests right now. Bantustans are preferable to other options. But I think Israel needs to hold responsibility for the security of the Bantustans, because otherwise they will simply serve as Kassam missile manufacturing and launching facilities -- maybe with mephitic or miasmic things poured into their nose cones.

Israel must reverse the equation, and demonstrate that time is on the side of the slow economic strangulation of the Bantustan, without seeming to act, or acting irredentist ...

Perhaps a carrot and stick approach would work. Strangulate economically at times of low cooperation, but encourage or at least stand aside during times of peace. But Israel must draw the line now, or find themselves losing ground continuously. Either Israel should stand now for what it has, or it should just prepare for evacuation.

10 posted on 09/06/2003 10:47:31 PM PDT by risk
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To: yonif
yonif, What is your opinion of Pat Robertson, and this article?
11 posted on 09/06/2003 11:16:07 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Delphinium
yonif, What is your opinion of Pat Robertson, and this article?

Pat Robertson speaks the truth when it comes to Israel and US foreign policy towards the Jewish state.

He is highly respected by many politicians and others in Israel and has received numerous awards of gratitude.

In a hostile world, Israel can use all the friends that it can get.

12 posted on 09/06/2003 11:28:39 PM PDT by yonif ("If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem, Let My Right Hand Wither" - Psalms 137:5)
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To: yonif
I think there is only one way to deal with the situation - you guys have to go in and take over that territory. Establish martial law, disband the Palestinian Authority, begin to reeducate the children and take over the television and the radio so the propaganda stops. Then, over a period of years, see if Palestinians of good will can be put in office -people who can understand the situation. Because as long as Yasser Arafat is there, there is not going to be any peace. He is a terrorist. All he knows is killing.

This is the whole thing in a nutshell.
It is what must be done, sooner or later.

Just my personal opinion, for what it is worth.

As for (Pastor? Reverend?) Robertson's belief that the executive, judicial and republican congressional branches are replete with Born-Again-Christians, I think he is sadly mistaken.
They are BACINO's, (born again christians in name only) and really just political opportunists.

13 posted on 09/07/2003 12:25:06 AM PDT by Drammach
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To: yonif
Three things:

1) No religious fanatic can be dissuaded from doing what he believes to be God's will. This is the foundation of the Palestinian intifadha. No amount of diplomacy, or military action, will stop the terrorism so long as they believe it is God's will that Israel be destroyed and Palestine created in its place.

2) Religion is always most fervent when times are most difficult. When people have little, they hold on the tighter to that which might transcend their earthly woes. Military action cannot break this fervor. Roman persecution of the Christians caused, many would argue, the dominance of Christianity throughout Europe. 2000 years of Jewish persecution made them ubiquitous throughout the world, and among the most powerful ethnic minorities the world has ever known in the most powerful nation the world has ever known. The same can be said for Mormons, Moonies, Buddhists (who knew of the Dalai Lamah before the Chinese invaded Tibet?) and even, to a lesser extent, practitioners of witchcraft. There is no reason to believe that Islam won't be affected the same way.

3) While genocide might solve these problems, the idea of Jews waging a genocidal war, or effectively isolating the Palestinians by the use of a wall into a "concentration area" might be seen as a repeat of the sins of Germany which allowed Israel the moral currency to buy her existence in the first place.

All these things being said, I think that a long-term diplomatic solution, bought in blood and restraint, are the only hope for a true peace. The roadmap is flawed, no doubt, but taking the leash off of Israeli troops to kill, maim and destroy at will is likely to trigger nations like Iran and Pakistan to provide terrorists with WMD capability, as their own citizens rise up to support an ever-escalating Jihad. Add to restraint an attempt to bring real economic prosperity to the citizens of the West Bank, and you might just find an answer to the religious fanaticism that currently threatens Israel.
14 posted on 09/07/2003 12:32:42 AM PDT by TomSul37 (Security is always bought at the price of freedom)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: TomSul37
is likely to trigger nations like Iran and Pakistan to provide terrorists with WMD capability,

Yet on another thread you question what is so bad about allowing an Iran to develop nuclear weapons and living alongside them under a policy of mutually assured destruction...

By your own words here, this is exactly why Iran must not be allowed to develop them.

16 posted on 09/07/2003 3:03:29 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Simi Valley Tom
"Israel is a mistake"

I feel sorry for you.

You who probably sit in your comfortable suburb, ride a bus without fear of being blown to pieces, tell Jews that their one symbol of soveringty and independence is a mistake.

Keep dreamin about gzuz, meanwhile the Jews will compound their "mistake" by living as a free and independent people, in their own land.

jew hating bastards can go to hell.

am yisrael chai.
17 posted on 09/07/2003 11:29:00 AM PDT by jabotinsky
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To: Simi Valley Tom; jabotinsky
I'm sure Simi Valley Tom did not mean that as wis heard.

Perhaps they will add a bit more fur us on the true meanin of that troublin statement.

Fergus

18 posted on 09/07/2003 12:11:11 PM PDT by Fergus MacCool (Celtic Pub Radio and ATOMIC CITY....www.ferguscity.com)
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To: yonif
I feel the same way about him.

I wish more Jewish people in this nation knew how much Bible believing Christians support Israel.
19 posted on 09/07/2003 3:39:05 PM PDT by Delphinium
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