Getting Israel Right (The flagship of paleoconservatism views the Jewish state)

Chronicles Magazine ^ | August 26, 2003 | Paul Gottfried

[adam_az]

Also, non Jews do rise to positions of power in Israel. For example as far back as 1987 the IDF had it's first Druze general. Also, lots of Christian Arab citizens of Israel volunteer for the IDF, and many rise to high positions. There are entire elite tracker and reconnaisance units made up mostly of bedouin and Druze.

In fact, as of July 13 of this year, General Youssef Michleb, a Druze, is now in charge of Israeli military activity in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria ("The West Bank") for the first time. He was appointed by Shaul Mofaz, a Jew of Persian descent. Israel is a very diverse place, even among Jews who are from places as different as Morocco and Brooklyn, Russia and Ethiopia, or Britain and Burma. There are also lots of foreign resident workers from Thailand especially in agriculture since the Thais don't blow anyone up, also from China, India, the Phillipines, and Romania. Israel has over 1 million Arab Muslim citizens. They have the right to vote and form their own political parties, which is greater than Arab rights in any Arab country. They are only not allowed to call for Jihad and openly support terrorists, which is an understandable limitation. It seems to be the authors biggest complaint!!

[MarkL]

Umm...how can this be, since Israel doesn't recognise civil marriages, only religious ones?

Israel recognizes non-Jewish marriages. The fact is that a Jew and a non-Jew can get married by a minister or priest, if that's their choice, and that marriage will be recognized.

Mark

[quidnunc]

ohiocreek wrote: why would you so despise fellow conservatives ("paleo" or not) - presumably you share many beliefs as well.

I consider the paloecons to be pariahs who bring nothing but discredit on the conservative movement.

Besides, the Patsies hold too many views with common with the loony left and the anti-globalization anarchists/nihilists for me to consider them to be comrads in arms.

[Alouette]

OB "hairy dwarf" graphic

[sheik yerbouty]

I believe he is a radical gay as well.

[sheik yerbouty]

I was merely quoting.

[quidnunc]

ohiocreek wrote: Who then, apart from the clearly despised authors at Chronicles, would you like to excommunicate?

Pat Buchanan, Taki Theodoracopulos, Eric Margolis, Georgie Ann Geyer, Llewellyn Rockwell and Joseph Sobran would be a good beginning.

[Theodore R.]

Georgie Ann Geyer

This is a quite outspoken journalist -- she is strongly anti-Castro, while the establishment media likes to cozy up to Fidel and smoke his cigars. She was also very anti-communist in regard to Latin America in the past 30 years. I don't think her conservatism extends to domestic affairs, however, except for her opposition to illegal immigration.

[quidnunc]

Theodore R. wrote: Georgie Ann Geyer. This is a quite outspoken journalist -- she is strongly anti-Castro, while the establishment media likes to cozy up to Fidel and smoke his cigars. She was also very anti-communist in regard to Latin America in the past 30 years. I don't think her conservatism extends to domestic affairs, however, except for her opposition to illegal immigration.

She has taken to bashing the Bush administration on a regular basis.

She's a lot like Eric Margolis except she's not stridently anti-American.

[Theodore R.]

Eric Margolis

I have never heard of this person. Who is he?

[rmlew]

The philosophy of the paleoconservatives, if I'm not mistaken, is taken from Kirk, M.E. Bradford, and Richard Weaver proximally, and Jefferson, Calhoun, and John Randolph more distally. These are luminaries of conservative thought, which began long before Kristol and Podhoretz strode onto the scene. -Just an observation, I have no personal interest in these internicine squabbles

Paleoconservatism started at a meeting of John Randolph Society in the 1980's. They may take ideas from various intellectuals before them, but it would be a mistake to assume any agreement.
Kirk was affiliated with the Heritage Foundation not the the Rockford Institute.
Jefferson was a fan of the Jacobins and supported international revoltuion.

[Optimist]

I feel a zot coming on.....

[quidnunc]

Theodore R. wrote: Eric Margolis. I have never heard of this person. Who is he?

He's an American who writes for the Toronto Sun, where you can find his column on Sundays.

He also writes the occassional column for Buchanan's American Conservative Magazine, and he regularly appears on the CBC to trash the U.S.

He's anti-American as hell.

[quidnunc]

Optimist wrote: I feel a zot coming on.....

I don't know why since the posts have all been civil if spirited.

[Theodore R.]

Buchanan's American Conservative Magazine

I have heard of Pat's magazine but have never seen a copy of it. I will try to find a website for this. Hasn't this been out for a year now? I had forgotten about it, but I see Pat on MSNBC at 5 p.m. Central weekdays.

[quidnunc]

www.amconmag.com

They only make a few of their articles available on-line.

[jackbob]

All I see here among the replies are criticisms demonstrating that the writers had not kept up to date with the goings on in Israel, and a confusion regarding well publicized debates in Israel with regard to advocacies of certain high Orthodox officials with the actual realities that exist in Israel. Admittedly, these are not small items. But the errors in the articles surrounding such, may not necessarily be intended lies.

Now with regard to a specific in the first article, I can imagine under certain circumstances as a young man, becoming overwhelmed with a sick kind of humor on first seeing a horrible event, live from a distance. And then as a tourist marking the maps where it happened, and possibly routing out my trip to the location. Then after realizing the full impact of what I had witnessed, feeling quite sick about my first reactions. That story said nothing significant about those so accused.

Of course Israel has spies in this country. They would be fools not to have them.

[Movemout]

Hey! You're still alive. Thanks for the article but I'm actually more happy to see you post.