[stand watie]

you should note that the proclamation was INTENTIONALLY written at protect NORTHEN slaveowners, whether their slaves were physically located in the north or in the occupied south.

no matter how much you wish TWBTS was about ending slavery, it was ONLY about LIBERTY for dixie.

arguing the opposite makes you look STUPID and/or IGNORANT of the period. in 1861 you couldn't have found 10,000 people who cared a damn about the plight of the slaves (NOBODY of course asked the slaves!).

when the war began going badly for the damnyankees in late '61 & Great Britain, Canada, Mexico & France were about to enter the war on the southron side, SUDDENLY the damnyankees declared the war to be a "crusade to end slavery". it was a self-serving,outright lie then AND now.

free dixie,sw

[donmeaker]

No, you have it wrong again.

The Federal government, to include the northern states, and many from the south, fought to preserve the Union. The southern plantation class, and the state governments they dominated began the war to preserve slavery. Slavery was perpetuated by the southern plantation class, because it was they who most benefited from it.

The european governments were all for the rebels winning, knowing that it would provide endless opportunity for stirring up conflict between north and south, and continued access to cheap raw materials. Prince Albert, on his deathbed saw things more clearly. He saw that to support the southern rebels was to support slavery, and mad that point to both Gladstone and Disraeli.

Again, on the southern side the war was about preserving slavery. On the Union side, the war was about preserving the Perpetual union that all the states had agreed upon, and preventing the theft of half the country that the southern plantation class had decided was necessary to for the continued existence of slavery. The southern plantation class had over 4 billion dollars in slave property, and because they could not use modern agriculture (they had to keep the slaves ignorant, or risk a higher runaway rate) they needed to continually head off to new territory when the land was worn out.

The Republican policy was to limit the evil of slavery to the states where it already existed, in the hope that slavery would become less lucrative and eventually die. The Dred Scott decision made that policy dependent on a constituitional amendment.

Compare Brazil. They rid themselves of slavery by making all persons born after 1872 (I recall, the year might be off a bit) free. In practice, very shortly after 1872 all became treated as free when ever they were born. No war, no conflict, and the evil of slavery ended! It was a policy like that, to which the Republicans were heading. That policy was anathema to the southern plantation class.

So the southern plantation class got their war. They were used to using the federal government as their private piggybank, supporting slaves in the non agricultural months by renting them out for public works paid for by the federal dollar. The rest of the country had been so deferential to them in the past that they were sure they could get away with addtional theft and embezzlement, rather than fight a war. Most of the army officers were of the southern plantation class, it being one of the few honorable jobs open to men of that class. The southern militia was drafted, and was at a higher readiness than northern militia units, due to the high risk of slave insurrection. Those advantages were thought enough to see them through.

They guessed wrong. The country paid a terrible price for their folly. As a wartime measure, slaves under their control were freed by the federal government, and it had a severe effect on the southern economy. Before the emancipation proclaimation, there was a hope that the south could come to their senses, but it became apparent that a full conquest would be necessary. The conquest was successful. The matter was settled for a hundred years.

Civil rights in the south were in a terrible state, and the jim crow laws were inflicted in this century as balm for the defeated south. That was not cured until 50 years ago.

Then the rebel battle flag was resurrected as a symbol of opposition to the civil rights movement, staining the honorable, if deluded soldiery of the south with the stain of modern racism and plutocracy.

The sin was that of the southern plantation class, dragging along the rest of the south with them.

I still do not understand why Lee could fight for such a cause. I understand his

[donmeaker]

No, you have it wrong again.

The Federal government, to include the northern states, and many from the south, fought to preserve the Union. The southern plantation class, and the state governments they dominated began the war to preserve slavery. Slavery was perpetuated by the southern plantation class, because it was they who most benefited from it.

The european governments were all for the rebels winning, knowing that it would provide endless opportunity for stirring up conflict between north and south, and continued access to cheap raw materials. Prince Albert, on his deathbed saw things more clearly. He saw that to support the southern rebels was to support slavery, and mad that point to both Gladstone and Disraeli.

Again, on the southern side the war was about preserving slavery. On the Union side, the war was about preserving the Perpetual union that all the states had agreed upon, and preventing the theft of half the country that the southern plantation class had decided was necessary to for the continued existence of slavery. The southern plantation class had over 4 billion dollars in slave property, and because they could not use modern agriculture (they had to keep the slaves ignorant, or risk a higher runaway rate) they needed to continually head off to new territory when the land was worn out.

The Republican policy was to limit the evil of slavery to the states where it already existed, in the hope that slavery would become less lucrative and eventually die. The Dred Scott decision made that policy dependent on a constituitional amendment.

Compare Brazil. They rid themselves of slavery by making all persons born after 1872 (I recall, the year might be off a bit) free. In practice, very shortly after 1872 all became treated as free when ever they were born. No war, no conflict, and the evil of slavery ended! It was a policy like that, to which the Republicans were heading. That policy was anathema to the southern plantation class.

So the southern plantation class got their war. They were used to using the federal government as their private piggybank, supporting slaves in the non agricultural months by renting them out for public works paid for by the federal dollar. The rest of the country had been so deferential to them in the past that they were sure they could get away with addtional theft and embezzlement, rather than fight a war. Most of the army officers were of the southern plantation class, it being one of the few honorable jobs open to men of that class. The southern militia was drafted, and was at a higher readiness than northern militia units, due to the high risk of slave insurrection. Those advantages were thought enough to see them through.

They guessed wrong. The country paid a terrible price for their folly. As a wartime measure, slaves under their control were freed by the federal government, and it had a severe effect on the southern economy. Before the emancipation proclaimation, there was a hope that the south could come to their senses, but it became apparent that a full conquest would be necessary. The conquest was successful. The matter was settled for a hundred years.

Civil rights in the south were in a terrible state, and the jim crow laws were inflicted in this century as balm for the defeated south. That was not cured until 50 years ago.

Then the rebel battle flag was resurrected as a symbol of opposition to the civil rights movement, staining the honorable, if deluded soldiery of the south with the stain of modern racism and plutocracy.

The sin was that of the southern plantation class, dragging along the rest of the south with them.

I still do not understand why Lee could fight for such a cause. I understand his

[donmeaker]

No, you have it wrong again.

The Federal government, to include the northern states, and many from the south, fought to preserve the Union. The southern plantation class, and the state governments they dominated began the war to preserve slavery. Slavery was perpetuated by the southern plantation class, because it was they who most benefited from it.

The european governments were all for the rebels winning, knowing that it would provide endless opportunity for stirring up conflict between north and south, and continued access to cheap raw materials. Prince Albert, on his deathbed saw things more clearly. He saw that to support the southern rebels was to support slavery, and mad that point to both Gladstone and Disraeli.

Again, on the southern side the war was about preserving slavery. On the Union side, the war was about preserving the Perpetual union that all the states had agreed upon, and preventing the theft of half the country that the southern plantation class had decided was necessary to for the continued existence of slavery. The southern plantation class had over 4 billion dollars in slave property, and because they could not use modern agriculture (they had to keep the slaves ignorant, or risk a higher runaway rate) they needed to continually head off to new territory when the land was worn out.

The Republican policy was to limit the evil of slavery to the states where it already existed, in the hope that slavery would become less lucrative and eventually die. The Dred Scott decision made that policy dependent on a constituitional amendment.

Compare Brazil. They rid themselves of slavery by making all persons born after 1872 (I recall, the year might be off a bit) free. In practice, very shortly after 1872 all became treated as free when ever they were born. No war, no conflict, and the evil of slavery ended! It was a policy like that, to which the Republicans were heading. That policy was anathema to the southern plantation class.

So the southern plantation class got their war. They were used to using the federal government as their private piggybank, supporting slaves in the non agricultural months by renting them out for public works paid for by the federal dollar. The rest of the country had been so deferential to them in the past that they were sure they could get away with addtional theft and embezzlement, rather than fight a war. Most of the army officers were of the southern plantation class, it being one of the few honorable jobs open to men of that class. The southern militia was drafted, and was at a higher readiness than northern militia units, due to the high risk of slave insurrection. Those advantages were thought enough to see them through.

They guessed wrong. The country paid a terrible price for their folly. As a wartime measure, slaves under their control were freed by the federal government, and it had a severe effect on the southern economy. Before the emancipation proclaimation, there was a hope that the south could come to their senses, but it became apparent that a full conquest would be necessary. The conquest was successful. The matter was settled for a hundred years.

Civil rights in the south were in a terrible state, and the jim crow laws were inflicted in this century as balm for the defeated south. That was not cured until 50 years ago.

Then the rebel battle flag was resurrected as a symbol of opposition to the civil rights movement, staining the honorable, if deluded soldiery of the south with the stain of modern racism and plutocracy.

The sin was that of the southern plantation class, dragging along the rest of the south with them.

I still do not understand why Lee could fight for such a cause. I understand his