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To: kesg
Neither Jefferson, who was in France, nor Madison authored the First Amendment, Fisher Ames did. His state at the time of it's ratiifcation had a state establisehed religion.

Likewise, Jefferson did not construct a "wall of separation", Justice Hugo Black did that in Everson in 1946. In fact Jefferson and Madison authored a law, while members of the Virginia Legislature, proscribing penalties for breaking the Sabbath. Jefferson, as POTUS, used the public treasury to build Catholic missions for the Indians and man them with the word of God, the Bible.

And that's the rest of the story.

20 posted on 09/05/2003 5:02:35 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
Bump.

Very crappy "objectively lying" article.
23 posted on 09/05/2003 5:09:00 PM PDT by wardaddy (deforestation now!)
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To: jwalsh07; kesg
Yep. And what was the very first thing Congress did after completing the final wording of the 1st Amendment?

A resolution calling for a national day of Prayer:

RESOLVED, That a joint committee of both Houses be directed to wait upon the President of the United States, to request that he would recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging, with grateful hearts, that many signal favors of almighty God, especially by affording them the opportunity peaceably to establish a Constitution of government for their safety and happiness.
US Congress, 25 Sep 1789

24 posted on 09/05/2003 5:09:13 PM PDT by Skooz (All Hail the Mighty Kansas City Chiefs)
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To: jwalsh07
It is true enough that Jefferson did not actually draft the First Amendment. My understanding is that Madison did indeed draft the First Amendment (he certainly drafted the version that originally passed the House of Representatives but was defeated in the Senate). Having said that, I now admit that there is some historical evidence that the establishment clause may have originally been intended to apply only to the federal government. There is also conflicting historical evidence. However, this point became moot with the passage of the 14th Amendment, which applied the First Amendment -- and most of the rest of the Bill of Rights -- to the states as well.

These historical points are interesting, but the overall point -- and one of the key points of the original article -- is that separation of church and state is essential to a free society. Jefferson and Madison were absolutely correct on this point. We have the benefit of more than 5,000 years of human history to illustrate the consequences of people who try to impose their particular religion on the rest of us. We saw it in spades during the Dark and Middle Ages, the heyday of religious rule. We see it today in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, as well as in the Islamofascist terrorist movement. In sum, theocracy and religious fanaticism, in all of their forms, is hazardous to human life and well-being.

33 posted on 09/05/2003 5:36:05 PM PDT by kesg
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