Home is no place for school - Homeschool Alert

USA Today Op Ed ^ | September 3, 2003 | Dennis Evans

[Boxsford]

It's in central Pennsylvania.

[jwin]

I think so. I do remember one state decided not to have spelling bees because some students lose. Winning and losing is a fact of life,

[JohnGalt]

Your statist knowledge of history betrays you.

The War for American Independence was noble in its cause; because I am a conservative libertarian that is my opinion. The Second War for American Independence involved the invasion of a federal army into Virginia, and rather than roll over an appease the state, they fought back for as long and as hard as they could.

Repelling invaders, thus, is solid tenet of conservative 'just war' theory.

If you are unaware of Conservative history in regards to FDR administration, its relationship with Communist Russia, and the FDR administrations deliberate attempt to provoke an attack on the United States, you are on the wrong website. You may have a different interpretation of history, but at least know the general outline and come back and talk to me.

[Rebelbase]

Bump. I'm enjoying your banter. Back later.

[JohnGalt]

That rich, call me quick to insult, on the same post you call me a coward in anonymous cyber space.

Taki is right bring back the duel.


And sorry, not a pacifict but shows the one track ideological thinking of the state that wants its people to sacrifice its son for the enemy on the month. Responsibility to protect ones self, ones family, and ones property belongs to the individual not to the state.

Hiring 19 year old girls from West Virginia to protect you on the frontline is, IMO, a gutless policy not fit for the land of liberty. I'd prefer a simple restoration of the Second Amendment.

[JohnGalt]

My pleasure, naturally.

[Jstanthrsn101]

goldstategop....are you, like, living on some other planet that the rest of us don't know about? California has the worst education system in the nation & has had for decades, a time-tested & proven FACT. They have the worst Child "Protection" (dis)Service in the country. In a newly implemented 7-point criteria test being used by the federal government on the state child protection agencies, CALIFORNIA FAILED ALL SEVEN POINTS! They have turned their citizens into a subsidy-perpetuating business, just like cattle & field crops!!!...Double & triple-ending open child support, welfare, cps, & any other county/state agency federally subsidized for every open case. California is THE top example of the failure of a government when it is under the control of one political ideal for far too long, as California has been. It's a disgrace, and I will NEVER expose my family to the potential for failure & abuse that is the epitomy of what California stands for today.

[JohnGalt]

Were you under the impression that the goal of the public school system was to educate?

The goal of the public school system is to indoctrinate its clients into statism and gubmint history.

I think you would agree, they are doing a great job at that task.

[Jstanthrsn101]

Ohhhh, phew!!! I was really hoping you were being sarcastic & referring to exactly that fact....thank you sooo much for confirming that! Have a great one....

[codder too]

Bill Bennett's K-12 is gaining speed all across the nation. This will make "government sponsored" homeschooling possible. K-12 provides the computer and the programmed curriculum. The facilitator can be in a public school classroom or in a home. Problem is that the state(federally mandated) assessments will still drive the content.

I would assert that this is just the beginning of a push to move many kids out of traditional classrooms. Moms or Dads who are not employed could be paid a stipend of sorts to stay home and "educate" their children. Tuition (tax dollars) follow the child as does the government control.

All the press generated by "true" Homeschoolers have convinced many folks that homeschooling is the way to go and will accept the K-12 offer in a heartbeat not knowing that it is not the same "CHOICE".

[GOPrincess]

Don't think you give homeschool parents enough credit for doing their research and recognizing that there are numerous ways to homeschool, ranging from completely private to ISP or charter school. It's the same debate as vouchers. Some fear vouchers will lead to government takeover of private schools. Others see them as the rightful return of our tax dollars to make our own choice, recognizing that we should be wary of any attempts at government regulation of private schools, because then they're no longer private, of course.

K12's curriculum is far, far above state standards and the materials do not have the same "politically correct" tinges as in the classroom. They are substantive and challenging. Children begin learning world and U.S. History in K -- not the case in public school.

There has been a lot of disinformation about K12 on the web by those who don't want to see parents have a "voucher" choice to educate their children at home. It's unfortunate as I believe that once parents begin to "think outside the box" and have choices, they'll never, ever again be willing to go back to the same old, same old way of educating our children.

With respect --

[HungarianGypsy]

The irony of the K-12 charter is that those who have previously homeschooled do not qualify. Kind of pushing away a target audience from the get-go.

[GOPrincess]

Not precisely sure what you're talking about as far as those who have previously homeschooled not qualifying to use K12 -- I think that may be a condition in some states. That is, so far as I know, the decision of a district and the charter school choosing to use the K12 curriculum (which, I should add, I don't agree with). That is not a universal situation, for instance, the charter schools using K12 in California welcome those who have previously homeschooled privately.

There is also an important distinction, K12 is a curriculum, not the actual school. It may be purchased to use as a private homeschooler any way one likes. It is also the chosen curriculum of a number of "virtual charter schools" and they all have their own rules and regs. K12 has nothing to do with those.

[GOPrincess]

Not precisely sure what you're talking about as far as those who have previously homeschooled not qualifying to use K12 -- I think that may be a condition in some states. That is, so far as I know, the decision of a district and the charter school choosing to use the K12 curriculum (which, I should add, I don't agree with). That is not a universal situation, for instance, the charter schools using K12 in California welcome those who have previously homeschooled privately.

There is also an important distinction, K12 is a curriculum, not the actual school. It may be purchased to use as a private homeschooler any way one likes. It is also the chosen curriculum of a number of "virtual charter schools" and they all have their own rules and regs. K12 has nothing to do with those.

[Jonx6]

Home Schooling and Socialization of Children

[Vic3O3]

Man, this Dennis guy is full of BS! What a lot of tripe!

[codder too]

Homeschool parents who have "done their homework" understand that Charter schools are pubic schools and therefore not a choice. The state holds the Charter and calls the tune.

K-12's curriculum will have to stand the test of state assessment results in near future before we can say it is far above state standards.

K-12 has a program that is available to private homeschoolers in total or in part, should they choose to purchase it, but those same parents cannot take advantage of a K-12 program that is attached to a public system and have their tax dollars pay for it, unless they attend the public school. WHY?

[GOPrincess]

"...those same parents cannot take advantage of a K-12 program that is attached to a public system and have their tax dollars pay for it, unless they attend the public school. WHY?"

I'm not sure what you mean by "attend." The children whose parents' tax dollars pay for K12 are enrolled in a public charter school, yes. But in CA and, as far as I know, any other state, there is no site to "attend." If you are referring to having to have previously attended a site-based public school in order to sign up for K12, the only state where I'm aware that's an issue thus far is Arizona. Here in CA I have a friend who homeschooled three children for years using Sonlight and Abeka. She is now in her second year of K12 through a virtual charter school. Her children have never set foot in a public school building. She feels the K12 curriculum is stronger than Sonlight and Abeka, although she liked them and they have good reps, and that her children are getting a better education using K12. Having their tax dollars refunded via the charter school in order to pay for it is the only way they can afford it right now. Anyway, if you are in AZ (or perhaps there's another state that requires previous public school attendance) perhaps that's where you're getting your information. Otherwise your statement is absolutely untrue. I'd be glad to provide further information here or via FReepmail if I can clear up any misconceptions about the process.

As far as not being able to simply have a tax voucher rebate to pay for completely non-strings private homeschool with K12, that's because state legislatures haven't voted for vouchers, more's the pity.

"Homeschool parents who have "done their homework" understand that Charter schools are pubic schools and therefore not a choice. The state holds the Charter and calls the tune."

This is an erroneous and unnecessarily divisive statement, insofar as it's totally my choice whether to homeschool privately with no government strings or whether to sign up for the public charter school to take advantage of my tax dollars to pay for the program -- just as I have one child in public high school and one child in a completely private site-based school, in addition to my two homeschoolers. They are all choices. (And I sure wish I had vouchers to pay for the private school, it's killing my budget!) The "strings" that are required as part of the virtual charter school are part of the agreement up front. It's up to the individual parent to decide whether "strings" such as testing are an acceptable exchange for the return of their tax dollars or whether they want to be independent and bear the entire cost themselves.

As far as being above state standards, as a parent of four I have only to examine the program and compare it to what I've seen in the public schools over the last 11 years to know it's far ahead of state standards. There's not even a contest. The children are also learning subjects non-existent (for 3rd grade and below) or largely cut/barely touched in our school district, including History, Geography, Science, Art and Music. I would add that in my book it's a crime that 5-year-olds at the public school building are being squeezed out of music and art time, important for their development, because of the push for earlier-than-ever reading. At home my K child has developmentally appropriate lessons and suggestions for teaching each lesson to a variety of learning styles, as well.

For more concrete numeric information, according to an article in the 8/31 SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, last year's K12 students averaged a rank *11* points above the averages for other public school students in language arts, and 7 points ahead in math.

A couple closing thoughts:

1) If the state ever starts calling the tune to an extent I don't like, whether dumbing down the curriculum or requiring things I find burdensome or disagree with, we're outta the charter, just like we're outta our neighborhood public school. My *choice*.

2) So far the only negative I've ever found about homeschooling is the confrontational factions within homeschooling groups: some unschoolers turn up their noses at curriculum users, and vice versa; private homeschoolers tell charter homeschoolers they're not "really homeschooling"; etc. It's disheartening. I've seen so many slams of K12 and charter homeschools here on Free Republic, and it's frankly tiresome. One of the wonderful things about homeschooling is getting out of the classic bricks & mortar school mindset and doing your own thing, to the extent you desire. It would be so much more constructive if all homeschool parents could all work together to support -- and protect -- one another's choices, whatever they might be.

Sincerely --

[codder too]

I will be interested to see what responses you get to this post. Californias Charter system is vastly different from those I am familiar with. In Mass or Penna there would be no chance that tax dollars would be "refunded" to anyone who chose K-12, or any other virtual system unless they were enroled as public school students. Did K-12 provide you with a computer ?

Any other states care to respond?

[gedeon3]

So there you have it ladies and gentlemen; the pontif Dennis L. Evans has spoken. Of course, the results of home schooling, and the little to no-results of public schools mean nothing. What matters is 'self esteem' and political correctness.