Proposed Base Closure 2005

2 Sept 03 | Email

[Not A Snowbird]

Miramar?! For crying out loud, the Marines just moved there a couple of years ago after they were kicked out of El Toro and Tustin. Just where are they supposed to go????? The freakin' desert???? Sorry. Rant over.

This has political written all over it. San Diego wants the base for a civilian airport because they screwed up Lindbergh Field. It's not going to happen.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Fort Monmouth, New Jersey

That's where Bigern came into this world.

Rock Island Arsenal. What a shame.

[68skylark]

I've only spent a month or two on active duty so far this year. So I guess I'll have to defer to the military experience of yourself and others who know more about military basing than I do.

I've heard Sec. Rumsfeld speak very forcefully about the need to close bases in order to free up money and people for overseas duty. Maybe you could enlighten him also.

[donozark]

Yes. USMC Engineers train with Army at Ft. Wood. Chemical Corps/MPs,etc. moved there as well. However, I just haven't had anything concrete about Ft. Sam being closed. $$ is being spent on rehab as we speak. Of course it is in a city which complicates things for field training, other than nearby Camp Bullis, which may be in a city now. On the other hand, a large city would offer much in the way for medical training.

[Khurkris]

KC-135's are history. Too much time on their airframes. Last year Boeing Co. signed a HUGE multi-year lease deal with the Gov't to lease them 767 outfitted as tankers.

[68skylark]

What about bases outside the US?

Bases outside the U. S. are closed or re-aligned using a process that's different than for domestic basing.

Basically, the President and Sec. of Defense get far more freedom to close or realign foreign bases, because Congress isn't as worried about local bacon. A lot of foreign bases have been closed and are still being closed now.

[xzins]

Rummy has said he will totally reorganize the way the military does business.

No problem with sharing similar training. There's no sense in having 2 tanker schools, for example.

I would object to "joint" basic training. I think Marine or Army basic, e.g., is entirely different than navy or AF.

There's no overcomable reason that some functions cannot be joint. Chaplain, lawyer, nurse, psych, and doctor can be joint. It'll be harder with medical. There are differences in the type of wounds one would receive in a ground unit as opposed to an air unit. You might want "specialists" in the medical field.

I'm a retired Chaplain, by the way.

I can see a purple suit for Chaplain, medical, legal, counselor, etc. I can even see them being outside the rank structure.

[PhiKapMom]

The Air Force has three of those and two are on the list! No way!

Did some searching and cannot find anything even remotely like this list at any of the DoD sites. If this is the list, someone is leaking and it will set off a firestorm.

I am trying to figure out what AF training bases would be left after this list! The only thing I can think of is that they are doing with training bases what they did with depots in the last round. Put them on all on the list and let the winners take all. That is how Tinker AFB became so overcrowded!

[Khurkris]

I am VERY skeptical of the validity of this info. Looks like the begining of election year dis-information.

[PhiKapMom]

Here at Tinker AFB we have a Navy contigent of about 1200 Naval personnel. They moved the Navy E-6 from Hawaii to Tinker with its personnel since the E-6 from the Navy and the AWACS share the same platform. Makes maintenance easier along with upgrades and was a wise move IMHO!

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Heck, why not buy a bunch of 767 or 747 airframes for tanking and other missions?

They going to lease a bunch of 767s and convert them to tankers. A big ass waste of money/boondoggle designed to save Boeing's rear end from the loss of the JSF contract and all the airframes they are sitting on because they got into the airplane leasing business and then 9-11 shot that industry in the temple.

[hchutch]

Beats relying on 45-year old planes that are modified 707s.

[El Gato]

I too, am skeptical. Goodfellow has had millions poured into it in the last 10 years.

So when has the notion of throwing good money after more good money ever stopped poli-critters from doing whatever they felt like? It's all about politics and whose ox is gored.

[SLB]

Many political issues are involved in this. There will be many "dope" deals going on in the hallowed halls of congress for months before the list is officially released.

[Alas Babylon!]

I think this list is actually pretty close to the mark. I can't think of a base or installation that's already been closed that didn't have its own ardent supporters and dozens of reasons to keep it open. Still, the bases were closed. There really aren't that many bases left. Any list that really attempts to save major dollars for DoD will have some shockers on it. In other words, it's got to hurt to be effective. Shoot, I'm a retiree and I hate to see any Alabama bases close, but I expect it, nevertheless.

I believe they made LAFS an AFB a couple of years ago.

[xzins]

It claims to be from an email, so it would be based on insider discussions.

As I look at the Army list, nearly all of them make sense. I can't speak for the other services. There is no earthly reason for keeping Ft Monmouth open. It's a few thousand civilians, about a hundred soldiers, and the prep school for West Point. Rock Island is a staff center with a bunch of offices. It, too, is civilian heavy. The same with most of the Army Materiel Command bases. (Rock Island will be hard to "off," though. It sits on the Iowa/Illinois border so that doubles the numbers of Senators and Representatives who will be fighting for it.

[El Gato]

The Air Force will lose 2,260 military and 2,839 civilian manpower positions, and 1,055 reserve drill authorizations next year, according to the 2004 force-structure announcement released July 23.

That is just sick. Clinton downsized the military beyond all common sense, but then what did we expect from Mr. "I loathe the military". But with Republicans in control of both Houses and the Presidency, you'd think we could pare down some of the not Constitutionally authorized functions of the federal government rather than the single most important function, and the main reason for even having a federal government, rather than a mere confederacy of states.

[donozark]

Military base closure/expansion/"re-alignment" are in many ways,a self-defeating prophecy. Take Ft. Wood, MO for instance. I hunted on base-years ago, as a civilian. It was wilderness. Remote. "Little Korea" as the troops in BCT called. Then it began to expand. Schools for dependents needed to be built. Stores. Reatuarnats, churches, banks, homes,etc.etc. Result? Traffic jams. Delays. Huge construction projects. Now a massive fence being planned. Eventaully folks will say," Hey! this is an URBAN area!" They will object to guns being fired. Bulldozers being operated in great numbers. And will again raise a stink (no pun intended) with Chemical Corps ops...

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

I say replace them but why are we spending 60 extra million dollars (and that's the initial estimate and we know about govt. initial estimates) to lease something we should just buy.

[El Gato]

The service will retire 44 of the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve Command's 43-year-old KC-135Es next year, replacing them with 24 KC-135Rs from the active-duty fleet.

While the -R is more capable and effecient, in terms of flights per unit of fuel transferered, I don't think it's 1.83(44/24) times as effecient. This means less tanker capability. And that's assuming that the active force gets enough 767 tankers to make up for the 24 -Rs they lose in the deal, and that they do it before or at the same time as the 44 E models are sent to the boneyard. The airframes of the E's have plenty of life left, but the engines are tired, being on their second life already, the first being on commercial 707s. They could be replaced with CFM-56/F-108s, turning the E's into R's at a fairly reasonable cost. Most of the enginering has already been done for the existing R's, so the cost of the engines and the labor cost to do the mods would be all it would take.