JOBS: LIARS, DAMN LIARS & STATISTICS

New York Post ^ | September 2, 2003 | JOHN CRUDELE

[sarcasm]

September 2, 2003 -- YESTERDAY was the day America celebrated workers. On Friday we'll find out how many people aren't working.

So, as I sat at home this holiday weekend with a plate of potato salad on my lap, barbecue sauce dripping down my chin, I decided to do a different kind of column: a labor-free one.

[LS]

"All of the above will increase American jobs."

Nope. All of the above would only put many American companies out of business. If you cannot afford to pay the workforce, you will not be in business, end of story. Your line should read,

"All of the above will greatly increase the size of government and socialize our industry."

[xzins]

Border Guards are necessary for our security, tariffs are a constitutional way to raise income as opposed to an income tax, and protecting our heavy industry is a security issue and not just a business issue. These are clearly conserative issues AND they will add jobs.

Taking away tax incentives for those shipping jobs overseas is simply choosing how and where we give deductions (given this income tax system...I'd prefer a NRST). There is absolutely no reason to reward a company for sacrificing American jobs. If you (generic business) take American jobs overseas, then you may not deduct that entire portion of your business as an expense....go ahead and live on that great profitability that you see beckoning you."

[arete]

I happened to own a 50's ranch at one time. All brick and built so that even a bullbozer couldn't knock it down. When I sold it the land and house were pretty much as I had bought them yet I was able to sell it at a considerably higher price. Why would that be?

Richard W.

[sergeantdave]

In 1910, an American could buy a three bedroom, two-story home for $600. It included real 2 x 4s, real stone, real oak wood, real cherry wood, real 2 x 10 joists, real European craftsmanship, and a real, real low payment. (Workers back in 1910 averaged $60 per month take home pay, meaning a house cost less than a year's salary.)

Inflation? Naw, there's no inflation.

Better building quality now? Sure...yeh...

[Apple Pan Dowdy]

".....everyone here keeps arguing that the jobs we are "losing" are manufacturing jobs, not jobs that can be (or are) done by illegals. Most of these jobs are unionized jobs, and illegals could not begin to get them."

There are lots of illegals in Georgia working in the poultry processing plants.... is that considered "manufacturing"?..... I don't know, just a thought.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

"Most of these jobs are unionized jobs, and illegals could not begin to get them."

Don't assume that manufacturing jobs are mostly union. The small to mid-sized manufacturing plants have been hit very hard, and are not necessarily union. Also, high-tech employees are not unionized, and that sector has also had big losses (some high tech is tied to manufacturing).
If illegals can vote, work, collect welfare, obtain driver's licenses and go to college, they sure can join a union. However, most businesses prefer to pay illegals under the table, bypassing taxes. Crossing the border illegally is just the first crime they commit.

[lelio]

* The number of people unemployed for at least 27 weeks is 1,959,000. Back in January the number hit 2,036,000 - the worst since 1993. As comparison: Back in February 2000 the number of people unemployed for 27 or more weeks was just 708,000.

Well that certainly isn't a nice statistic, that long term unemployment has more than doubled under Bush's tenure. Better stop publishing that figure.

Could anyone on here answer by question on this thread about how can the new UI claims be 400k a week but according to the government's layoff figures companies have only laid off 800k for the first 8 months of this year? That's a difference of 22k reported layoffs vs 400k new claims.

Granted not everyone has to report layoffs, but still why the near 20 times difference in numbers? Is someone, like Laz pondered, getting laid of 250 times a second?

[LS]

Let's be honest---in some states it's hard enough for a NON-ITALIAN to get some unionized jobs! :) I seriously doubt, and you should too, that any illegals are going to get any of these manufacturing jobs. They are high-skill jobs, and are not going to uneducated workers, let along non-Italians :)

[LS]

I guess it is. But I'd be very skeptical as to whether or not they are actual "illegals" and not just Hispanics. There is a difference.

[LS]

I wouldn't trade my house now for 10 of those "fine" houses from 1910. Sorry, I lived in one built in 1960. Talk stone, brick, all you want, but the fact is they ate energy like crazy, weren't insulated, and were vermin traps. No thanks.

[LS]

Maybe for the same reason as I could sell my house today for a substantial profit. Housing is the one sector in America that ALWAYS goes up. Very seldom do you see falling housing prices.

[LS]

I have news for you: income taxes are constitutional too. Read the amendments. If you don't like it, change it.

Tariffs are unfair; aid only big business; and punish ordinary Americans. They are especially harmful to consumers of products who aren't covered by the tariff. Ask the South in the 1850s.

[buwaya]

I've got an interest in San Francisco architecture. There is actually a lot of information on the subject of home prices.

In San Francisco, in the 1910's, cheap tract homes were selling for $ 3000, not $ 600. A more typical home price was $ 5000.

[buwaya]

There is a constant rate of people leaving their jobs, losing their jobs without reference to a particular mass-layoff, etc. Add to that new entrants in the job market.

The problem isn't necessarily mass layoffs as such but with weak labor demand not soaking up the unemployed.

[Dilbert56]

Also productivity is higher. If productivity increases 5%, and my business increases 4%, I have too many workers and have to lay people off even thought 4% might be considered good growth.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

Well as a Tony Soprano fan, I can see the point you are making. But, out here in California/Nevada/Arizona the casinos, hotels, factories, canneries, construction crews, janitorial crews, many fast food crews and car washes are mostly illegal and legal spanish (only) speaking employees; to the point, that an english speaking citizen will not be hired because he cannot communicate with his coworkers (besides requiring a normally taxed & benefit paycheck).
The janitors started a union in L.A. and many were/are illegal (there's even a movie about how they unionized).
Oh, I almost forgot the long shoremen's union; a lot of spanish only speaking. They were recently on the news when all those containers full of rotting fruit and veggies, etc. were left unloaded. And, they have extra large paychecks (starting at 70k up to over 100k); their phoney documentation must be pretty good. (There have been news stories over the years showing how easy it is to obtain a SSN from a street corner from a spanish only speaking criminal, as well as driver's licenses from the DMV, etc. Once a few sympathetic to their cause get into state/county departments, the rest is easy.)

[lelio]

So of the 400k regular weekly layoffs (new UI claimants) only 22k of them (800k for the year so far as quoted from this thread) are due to "mass layoffs" which are counted in the "planned" layoff figure?

If the "planned layoff" figure represents only 5% of the weekly layoffs, then why is this number even touted as going down? Heck it could go down 100% to zero and it would only have a 5% impact on the 400k loosing their job each week.

One thing that does concern me about the 400k figure is that if only 5% of it is made up from big business layoffs, then 95% of them are coming from small business. I thought that was the engine of our new economy?

[Apple Pan Dowdy]

"But I'd be very skeptical as to whether or not they are actual "illegals" and not just Hispanics. There is a difference."

Sorry, but you are wrong.... there have been numerous articles over the last few years when they get caught hiring the illegals... for instance:

Tyson Execs Charged in Smuggling Illegal Aliens
NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, Dec. 20, 2001
WASHINGTON – A federal grand jury in Chattanooga, Tenn., has returned a 36-count indictment against executives and managers of Tyson Foods Inc. for conspiracy to smuggle illegal aliens to its U.S. facilities for profit, the Justice Department said Wednesday.

[Apple Pan Dowdy]

"But I'd be very skeptical as to whether or not they are actual "illegals" and not just Hispanics. There is a difference."

Sorry, but you are wrong.... there have been numerous articles over the last few years when they get caught hiring the illegals... for instance:

Tyson Execs Charged in Smuggling Illegal Aliens
NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, Dec. 20, 2001
WASHINGTON – A federal grand jury in Chattanooga, Tenn., has returned a 36-count indictment against executives and managers of Tyson Foods Inc. for conspiracy to smuggle illegal aliens to its U.S. facilities for profit, the Justice Department said Wednesday.

[buwaya]

Not necessarily - there are something like 150 Million employed people in this country. People are constantly quitting or being fired/layed off, companies are failing, etc. About 15-20 Million a year lose their jobs one way or another and claim unemployment benefits.

Of these, only a minority are listed in announced layoffs by major companies. There are other layoffs from major companies that you won't find in these figures.

Most working people do not work for a major company, (say, the top 500) - only a small minority do.