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FDR's Raw Deal Exposed
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | 9.30.03 | Thomas Roeser

Posted on 08/30/2003 11:59:46 AM PDT by Cathryn Crawford

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To: Cathryn Crawford
Taxes spiraled (as a percentage of gross national product), jumping from 3.5 percent in 1933 to 6.9 percent in 1940.

Big deal. Today, those taxes are around 22 per cent, and climbing.

101 posted on 08/30/2003 3:04:23 PM PDT by Moonman62
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To: liberallarry
His anti-Japanese measures a third.

There is now new evidence that these measures against the Japanese were instigated by a Stalinist in the U.S. Dept. of Treasury. An Assistant Secy. of the Treasury was instructed by Stalin's U.S. agents to embargo US steel scrap from the Japanese, in order to foment ill will between Japan and the US. This kept the Japanese preoccupied with the US, rather than their old enemy, the Russians. This embargo precipitated the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Harry Dexter White, the Soviet agent, stayed on in the Treasury Department for many years, as well as remained a communist. He had considerable involvement in the creation of the International Monetary Fund, the infamous IMF. You can see a photo of "Harry the Red", on the IMF's web site. They are quite proud of this mischievous little commie. One of FDR's many "New Dealers", that gave America the Raw Deal as often as they could.

102 posted on 08/30/2003 3:06:14 PM PDT by elbucko (Calif. Haunted by the ghost of Bob Citron, the Democrat that bankrupted a county.)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
Democrats fight a rearguard action against the understanding that high taxes stifle the economy

Plenty of Democrats do refuse to recognize that high taxes can stifle the economy. No intelligent ones, though. If you want to argue that proves there are a surplus of dumb Democrats you won't get any argument from me.

FDR had no idea what to do about the Depression

No one had any idea back then and I don't think things have improved much.

103 posted on 08/30/2003 3:07:33 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
- Roosevelt sent Jews back to Europe because that's what most of the public wanted - most prominent among them the same Conservative isolationists.
True, unfortunately.
Interestingly Jews in Stalin's Russia did much better than in most of Europe.
Dachau and Buchenwald. What, precisely, is interesting about that? Do you hope to convince me that Stalin wasn't as bad as Hitler, and if so why should I care? Being better than Hitler is such faint praise that I can't hear it at all.

104 posted on 08/30/2003 3:11:21 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The everyday blessings of God are great--they just don't make "good copy.")
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To: elbucko
So you think that we had no legitimate quarrel with the Japanese, no conflict of interest? That - absent Stalin's agent - we had no problem with the Japanese conquest of China, and of British, French and Dutch East Asia?

Obviously you're some sort of isolationist left-over.

105 posted on 08/30/2003 3:11:35 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
No, I don't hope to convince you that Stalin was not as bad as Hitler - nor do I believe it.

But facts are facts. During WWII Jews were treated better in Stalin's Russia than in most of Eastern and Western Europe. You can fill in the explanations.

106 posted on 08/30/2003 3:14:41 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: demlosers
Or he was ideologically sympathetic toward the communist system

I will buy both, AND recall that FDR was "served" by a number of Soviet agents in State as well as in his own staff.

107 posted on 08/30/2003 3:16:00 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: liberallarry
- Roosevelt rounded up the Japanese for one of three reasons; Either because
(a ) they constituted a legitimate threat during wartime,
(b) because war-time prejudice endangered them, or
(c) because local California agricultural interests wanted their land.
Take your choice.
d: racial profiling.

108 posted on 08/30/2003 3:17:49 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The everyday blessings of God are great--they just don't make "good copy.")
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To: elbucko
The WPA (Works Progress Administration) was created in 1935, in the third year of the New Deal.
109 posted on 08/30/2003 3:19:59 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: liberallarry
If you want to argue that proves there are a surplus of dumb Democrats you won't get any argument from me.

Oh, Larry, Larry. There's more than a surplus of dumb Democrats, there is a veritable abundance of the stupid buggers.

110 posted on 08/30/2003 3:23:10 PM PDT by elbucko (Calif. Haunted by the ghost of Bob Citron, the Democrat that bankrupted a county.)
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To: liberallarry
So you think that we had no legitimate quarrel with the Japanese,..

I made no such point. The point I did make was the presence of infection by soviet agents in the Roosevelt administration and their influence upon international events that were contrary to the interests of the United States.

111 posted on 08/30/2003 3:28:04 PM PDT by elbucko (Calif. Haunted by the ghost of Bob Citron, the Democrat that bankrupted a county.)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
I believe most believe that he surrounded himself
with communists and communist fellow travelers. He often
followed their council and tried to impliment most of
the Socialist Party's programs.
112 posted on 08/30/2003 3:31:32 PM PDT by upcountryhorseman
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To: liberallarry
Intelligence was not Nazi Germany's strong suit. Arrogance and intelligence are not a good combination. :) By the way, Hitler credited Henry Ford with some of his ideas on anti-semitism. How far do you want to go with that?

Henry Ford was duped into publishing some anti-semitic propaganda. But that was not the source of the German onslaught against the Jews.

The German Jews had been the target of Socialist propaganda in Germany for a Century, before Hitler took up the cause. Marx had proposed the idea of rallying your support by focusing on a single target; he had also blamed the sins of Capitalism on a Jewish mindset, and suggested a world without Jews. Hitler simply grabbed the tactic and ran with it. (You need to understand that when Hitler rose to power, the Nazis and Communists had been in a bitter, no holds barred war for control of the lowlife mobs in the German streets.)

On the subject of arrogance, have you ever seen pictures of FDR? Hitler may have been an arrogant ranter. FDR was the most arrogant snob, ever to sit in the oval office.

To understand that Hitler and Stalin were demonstrably smarter than FDR, is not a cheap shot. Both came from humble backgrounds, and quickly achieved supreme, absolute power in their nations. FDR came from a gilded background, had the advantage of the fact that his cousin was a very popular President, etc.; he was also obviously used by others--the very subject of this thread, relates to the policies that others imposed upon him domestically--or sold him, if you prefer. Hitler and Stalin called their own depraved shots.

Finally, Stalin played FDR as a complete fool at Teheran and Yalta.

As for my comment that Roosevelt's policies prolonged the Depression, because he hand-cuffed the innovative, you said:

You've simply made this up. As well, economics was and is largely propaganda. In my college days - the '60s - economists were still teaching that unemployment was an impossibility in a free-market economy. Things haven't improved much.

I hardly made that up. In 1930, we had 122,000,000 people, close to being an optimum number, but still not over-crowded, with still claimable land in Alaska and a few other areas. If the market had simply been allowed to adjust, free of gimmicks, it is true that many people would have had to take a cut in remuneration to find jobs, or settle in new areas; some perhaps even returning to subsistance farming. But people would have made adjustments, and gone back to work. If some industries had floundered, others would have started up. The demand for goods and products is always there; the problem is to make the adjustments, to take one's best hold on what opportunities there are, or to make your own opportunities if there are none. That may take a coupld of years of real privation--I am not disputing that. But it should not take 12 years.

The problem is that both Hoover & FDR tried the gimmick approach--with Roosevelt adding the devaluation, and stealing a lot of money, by forcing repudiation of hard money guarantees. This took predictability out of the market--and without predictability, people cannot make the decisions based upon an assumption of the risks of enterprise. (It was as though the Bastard--now, I know it was not so much his idea as that of the loathesome Socialists who came to Washington to take jobs in the New Deal--but he was the one responsible;--set out to undo the wise policies of the Founding Fathers, in the Constitution, which set about maximizing the predictablility factors, in many provisions.)

But enough. You simply do not understand the economic dynamic. It is not propaganda as you suggest--albeit it may be a dismal science.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

113 posted on 08/30/2003 3:32:42 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: elbucko
I've read through 102 posts on this subject and I cannot find the first reference to the dustbowl. From account from my parents and others that lived through that time, there were seven years of drought in the midwest that doomed many farmers and their banks to bankruptcy. This was seen by many as the main reason the depression lasted as long as it did. The policies instituted by FDR didn't help the situation and truly made them worse at the time. Later reforms (FDIC) were insurance that it wouldn't happen again, but it did nothing to get many people back on their feet after the fact.

Smoot-Hawley was a factor in the stock market crash of '29 but the market had regained it's pre-crash levels by the summer of '31. That's when the banks started to fail due to the massive crop failures of '30, and by '33 when the Fed began it's monetary contraction the banks that were left couldn't stand the strain and folded.

I wasn't there and I haven't done any particular study of this time, but these are the accounts of those that lived through it.

Be well...

114 posted on 08/30/2003 3:33:04 PM PDT by Wingy
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To: liberallarry
But facts are facts. During WWII Jews were treated better in Stalin's Russia than in most of Eastern and Western Europe.

That is because many Jews gave up their religion and became communists in the Soviet Union. Stalin was an equal opportunity commie.

115 posted on 08/30/2003 3:33:22 PM PDT by elbucko (Calif. Haunted by the ghost of Bob Citron, the Democrat that bankrupted a county.)
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To: Allan
Well--yes and no.

To begin with, there IS such a thing as a 'classical liberal,' (roughly equivalent with today's conservative.)

But the 'classical liberal' disagrees with today's conservative on some of the fine points. A classical liberal will NOT countenance the State licensing criminal activities (abortion, e.g.) A classical liberal will NOT countenance the State usurpment of subsidiarity (e.g., the Fed courts controlling State affairs such as the 10 Commandment/Alabama affair.) And a classical liberal will NOT countenance the State's abandonment of its poor.

In specific regard to the last of those statements, there can be legitimate and useful argument over means, methods, and measures--but not over the charge of the State to 'provide for the welfare' of its inhabitants.

At this point, the US is so screwed up it would take 25 years to untangle the mess and actually LET productive people be productive. For an excellent example, see this AM's WorldNetDaily article about St. Paul local officials putting a lemonade stand out of business. Two 9-year-olds were told that there were "health concerns" about them re-selling canned soda pop.
116 posted on 08/30/2003 3:33:52 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
One can't argue as you do and at the same time blame FDR for not preparing for war...as an earlier poster did.

Americans as a whole were 80% against another war with Germany right up until Pearl Harbor

I believe this is correct...and I believe conservative Republican isolationists were the leading exponents of this view.

But FDR was able to push Japan into attacking us; Pearl Harbor represented the success of FDR foreign policy

This is correct in essence, I believe

FDR's leaking of his plan to raise a huge army to fight Germany and Japan...is what induced Hitler to declare war on the US

Possibly. I've always seen Hitler's declaration of war against us treated as a thoughtless, spur-of-the-moment support of an ally.

Of course when FDR's foreign policy succeeded, 400 merchantmen were promptly sunk off the US coast, and scores of thousands of G.I.s were killed or captured by the Japanese offensive in the Philipines and elsewhere in the Pacific--but hey, what is that compared to the need to save the Soviet Union from being crushed by Germany? If you're a Commie symp, nothing at all, is what.

Please. Your comments to this point have been sane and reasonable. We didn't want the Germans to crush the British or the Russians. We didn't want the Japanese to crush the Chinese. Simple power politics - regardless of what you think of the various regimes. It's a continuation of British continental policy...which itself is probably basid on Roman principles.

117 posted on 08/30/2003 3:34:16 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: Verginius Rufus
The WPA (Works Progress Administration) was created in 1935, in the third year of the New Deal.

Thanks. I stand corrected.

118 posted on 08/30/2003 3:35:08 PM PDT by elbucko (Calif. Haunted by the ghost of Bob Citron, the Democrat that bankrupted a county.)
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To: liberallarry
By the way, Hitler credited Henry Ford with some of his ideas on anti-semitism. How far do you want to go with that?

Probably as far as YOU want to go with the knowledge that to succeed at Ford's, you must be a Mason--common knowledge in Detroit since the 1940's.

119 posted on 08/30/2003 3:37:05 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: elbucko
I thought it was petroleum, not scrap steel.
120 posted on 08/30/2003 3:38:44 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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